Heritage or not at the new Dreamland ?

[porf]

Hi,

I've seen mention in a few places of a down-playing of the heritage element of the park.

Initially following the breakfast event (http://thanetstrife.blogspot.com/2010/03/dreamland-6-years-of-dereliction-as.html) and now last week's Thanet Local Board meeting (http://yourthanet.co.uk/kent-news/Margate-theme-park-chief%E2%80%99s-dream-world-newsinkent34568.aspx?news=local)

Is there any official update on the park plans?
How are the new and old parts to integrate?
Will there be new concept art showing how the park will look?

[EAS]

Hmmmm. I thought the point was that it was going to have nostalgia value and NOT rely on 'white knuckle' stuff (although a Wild Mouse is pretty scary...) and gangs of yoof, but appeal to families who want a good day out!

The problem is with going that route, you need a huge site and vast amounts of cash; new, bigger, shinier scarier rides rapidly become old.

Sure, there should be room for a changing variety amongst the trad (River Caves, Ghost Train etc) but ask Amanda just how much the Big One actually cost...

And yes, there is the cinema complex.

I also add, that blog displays a great deal of naivety and ignorance re what can be achieved in enforcement, and of course it's easy to snipe from a position of ignorance. The Anon comment under displays considerably more sense, and we know that the rides rescued are only fragements and of course they will all need rebuilding/recreating, but it's a start /a pattern.

The fact is that it's far better to have Dreamland's owners working in partnership with all who want to see the site reopened.

[Chris H]

I agree on this mixture of white nuckle and heritage amusments rather than the site containing purely heritage rides.
I still fail to see how the park can wow crowds simply using 50% of the site. Theirs just not enough space.
The land was limited even when 100% of the site was being used, for example Hank having to use the car park for more ride space during the late 80s.

[Vince, Charlie and Sam]

Yes, I'm sure I cannot be the only poster on here to wonder when we are hear some hard and fast plans...

[aweber1us]

I think what concerns me more is there still seems to be no work start date on the Scenic.It would be good to retain as much of this ride as we can.

[EAS]

Hang on... this will not at all be rapid, anyone who thinks it's all plain sailing and there's vast pot of cash of millions of pounds at the ready to begin to spend should keep up more with the News page!

It's wonderful news that there are now people employed in various capacities to drive this forward, but there's a great deal of preparatory work to be done, and no doubt many setbacks, before any work will be able to begin on the site.

[aweber1us]

I do understand what great work has been done at Dreamland and have followed the site from 2003 and put my hand in my pocket. But it does concern me, the longer the Scenic is left the amount that will be lost will be greater.Nick once said that 30% of the wood had to be changed every year.
I dont like the thought of an all new Scenic.

[EAS]

No, but there's a great deal of the old gone in the fire, and there's a very long way to go before all the cash is raised (and that's not a total certainty...) and work can start on the site. Scenic will be woodman's axe whatever... the most sad loss was the trains. Structure was always being renewed, and major amounts went in the past in other fires. Some of it was replaced with wood from Lowestoft Pier, I recall. The workshop has gone also, a new station will be needed...

It's only been a very short while since someone was employed full time to push this forward; nothing can be rushed.

As the March newsletter (link in the News page) said

Over the next four months much of our work will be in preparation of Heritage Lottery Funding bid, which will be submitted early August. Our activities and reports will feed into the bid to help release the 2nd round of funding to bring the amusement park to fruition.

[Vince, Charlie and Sam]

Don't shoot the messenger, but I don't know anyone in Margate who thinks Dreamland will ever re-open.

An important part of any campaign to save Dreamland should be to inspire confidence, in part by supplying hard and fast facts, and this just isn't happening.

Can we have some idea about when we may have some idea?

[Xtremecoasters]

I have to say I think this is great news. I was pleased that Dreamland was being saved at all and would have visited, but it would only be once every few years rather than 2 - 3 times every season like I visit Thorpe, Alton Towers or Blackpool Pleasure Beach.

Getting some cutting edge extreme rides thrown into the mix is a very exiting prospect

[Nick]

Firstly, I can confirm 100% that the Dreamland Margate project is a heritage project. Of course the new Dreamland will provide new features in the form of new environment, new food & beverage, new retail, new heritage interpretation, etc. But the concept is 100% heritage rides, albeit in a contemporary environment.

That is why we were not keen on pursuing rides such as the swinging pirate ship at Barry Island, which some people on this forum expressed an interest in on another thread. Not only would modern rides be too expensive for us to acquire, they would dilute the concept. We want to be the world's first amusement park of historic rides. We also want to be different to every other seaside amusement park in the country. We can't be either of those things if we also have modern rides as there are many parks that feature both and do it very well (Blackpool and Great Yarmouth pleasure beaches, for instance).

That is not to say that we couldn't have guest rides in for a period of time. For example, we could have a guest pirate ship, with interpretation showing how these rides had developed from the steam yachts of 100 years ago. Similarly, we could have guest vintage rides, such as old travelling waltzers, dodgems, gallopers, etc. But these would only be for specific periods to add variety. We are going to be an amusement park of historic rides, not modern rides and not a travelling fairground.

In response to the comments about lack of progress, more is happening now than has been the case for some time. We are right in the middle of detailed negotiations on the land, and our current focus is to raise the rest of the money we need. We have raised £500k from Heritage Lottery and £3.7k from Sea Change. That still leaves us several million pounds short of the £12.4m needed for Phase One. Given the state of the property market, we cannot rely on Section 106 funding. That sort of money is simply not around any more, but undoubtedly will be in the future. Therefore we are still having to spend a lot of time assembling bids, which themselves cost several thousand pounds to put together. We now have a team of four members of staff, led by Jonathan Bryant (who is doing a fantastic job, by the way), working towards these bids. We have the capacity to do it, but we have to work to the timetables handed to us by the grant organisations. I am afraid there is no other way of doing this - unless there is a benefactor out there with £8.4m!

In parallel with this, we now have a project manager appointed who has put together a detailed programme for construction. That has to be approved by the various parties involved in the project. Once approved, we will share it with everybody straight away. The programme shows the park opening at the start of the season in 2012 as has been the case for some time now, and we are still on target to meet that. Nothing has changed or slipped.

We are, however, ploughing ahead on the assumption that we will secure the remainder of our funding. We will be announcing very soon the appointment of architects, landscape architects, M&E consultants, engineers and others who will be converting the concept drawings we produced last year for bid purposes into detailed drawings that will be implemented. Because of the scale of the project and the source of funding, we had to go through a very lengthy OJEU process of appointments, which has taken several months. We have had no choice in this matter. And we are doing all of this without all the funding in place because if we don't, we won't meet our opening target.

We are now trying to produce regular newsletters to update everybody on where we are. The first was uploaded to the campaign news page on 20 March. There will be another to follow soon, which will hopefully be more informative about the actual status of the project.

I can assure everyone on this forum that there is nobody who wants to see this project implemented more than me. And I would like it to be implemented yesterday if at all possible, for obvious reasons. Dreamland is vulnerable and we need to start work as soon as we possibly can. But we do have to secure the rest of our funding (to the tune of about £8m), we have to appoint the professional team through a formal process, we have to then produce the detailed plans, transfer the land and then build it. And as somebody who works in the property development industry in my day job, I can say that we are pushing ahead as quickly, if not quicker, than most other multi-million pound development projects - even in the good times - because of the commitment of the team and the Council.

If anyone has any ideas (or money!) that will enable us to short circuit any of the above, please let me know!

Keep checking back here and the Save Dreamland News page and we will keep you all updated.

[erclairedoc]

Thanks Nick for collaborating all the updates and information on the project. Work is well underway and I can't help but get excited when I think about the park brought to life again. Indeed there is much support for Dreamland as seen by the attendance at the recent event Quadrophenia. I, as well as many others am behind you Nick in longing for the project to be implemented. Roll on 2012!

[Sarah]

Don't shoot the messenger, but I don't know anyone in Margate who thinks Dreamland will ever re-open.

Forgive me Vince, and I'm not shooting you, but you know me.

And I know lots of other people in Margate who think the park will re-open and are looking forward to it.

The three of you will be right behind me in the queue for the Scenic!

Sarah

[EAS]

I don't live in Margate, far from it, but I also believe it can happen.

No, it won't be the 'old' Dreamland, no it won't be a rival to the 'xtreme' rides sites, I think, hope and believe it will be, eventually, something amazing and unique. A beautiful place, a day out people will enjoy and return to, time and again.

I think alongside other parts of Margate's heritage, it can and will form something wonderful which will draw the crowds and help with regeneration.

Let's recognise how far the campaign has come, let's consider that so far much of it has been by people giving their own free time, expertise and cash, and let's stop sniping and be bloody grateful. I know I am. I cannot begin to thank Nick and the team enough. I know how much of a (sorry...) rollercoaster ride of emotions this is, how much wing and prayer faith and belief.

The alternative? A 'mixed-use' development on the entire site.

Me, I hope I live to see the Heritage Amusement Park dream a reality, with a recreated Scenic, and the beautiful and historically and architecturally important II* listed cinema carefully repaired and re-used.

So much potential...

[Cheryl]

It is a shame that people seem to think Dreamland as a Heritage Park won't work, won't pull in the crowds because it's not like Thorpe Park or Alton Towers. That's the whole point, it is not to be like anywhere else!

The Black Country Museum in Dudley is a real crowd puller, based on Victorian and Edwardian times, a lot of people fall in love with our heritage. Blist Hill in Telford is another great place and yes my girls, age 16 and 13 love these places, so they appeal to all ages.

I am looking forward to the opening of Dreamland and I'm sure, Sarah, Vince, Charlie and Sam and many others will be battling (along with us) to get in those gates first!