My Visit to Dreamland

[cliffc]

Now I know i am going to create an almighty stink with this post but here it goes.

We visited Margate this Thursday as we stayed in Ashford after 3 day visit to France. As part of our stay we visited Dreamland and if what we experiaced is anything to go by the sooner its closed down and demolished the better. The staff were the most sullen bunch we have ever met, (this could be due to the fact there impending redunancys of course) the ones on the stalls were not even trying to get the punters to play the games as thay would do in say Blackpool and problerly Brighton, The rides looked so old that I would not presonaly ride on any of them and that includes the railway which to me looked the worst of them all. I am not being unduly crititical here but other parks I have visited have rides of a simular era to this one and thay look much better for example the old wooden Big Dipper and the Grand National both at Blackpool. Now you may argue that this location gets more visitors and of course if the closure has been on the cards for a while why Invest in new rides or the ones you have, you would just do what is required to keep them running.
I do feel sorry for Margate as the town is one of the best ones we have visited, but if dreamland is to be saved, I feel it needs a lot of investment cash putting into it, I also understand that we did not expreiance it in its better years also. I also cannot work out if the listed railway belongs to Dreamland or is now run by a seperate group of people as a charity, If so then no matter what happens to Dreamland its self the railway cannot be demolished as its listed, it will have to somehow incorperated into the new plans.

[dave771]

I cant believe the comments you have made, it seems like you dont anything about the current owner and what he has done to the park in recent years to make it look the way it does now.

There are many people that are doing their best to try and save the park and keep it running for further generations to enjoy so it can return to how it used to be.

One other thing I would like to add is the comment you made regarding the Scenic Railway, could you be more specific as to what your comment meant as I am the person running the ride this year and myself and my colleagues have worked bloody hard to get it up and running for customers and enthusiasts to enjoy.

Due to somebody recently leaving the running of the Scenic Railway, not mentioning any names, i have not been paid for the past 6 weeks and my colleague Simon Goodenough has been helping free of charge when he can to keep the ride going so please think very carefully about the facts before you start slagging off everything we are trying to do!

[porf]

Cliffc

I would have thought that if you can be bothered enough to sign up to the forum that you could at least make the effort to read some of the previous postings and news items before posting !

I don't think anyone here wants Dreamland in the state it's in. However most people here would like it to remain and get back to the way it once was. Central to this is the preservation of the site as an amusement park and the preservation of the main and oldest ride on the site. Consider it more as the restoration of a derelict stately home than of the fact you thought it looked a bit old and scruffy and you'll be a lot closer to the point of the campaign !

Most of your issues you seem to answer yourself anyway so I won't dwell on many of those.

However I would point out that perhaps the best way to find out how the scenic railway is run and why it is as it is would be to talk to those who run it. I visited on Saturday and Dave went out of his way to explain the current situation regarding both the site and the scenic railway, something I would recommend to anyone who hasn't visited the park recently.

With regard to the age of the other rides in the park, many have only been brought in in recent years as older rides were stripped from the park. I'd be interested to know which you think looked unsafe for you to ride.

Welcome to the forum !

[porterm]

I would like to fully endorse Dave Collard's comments re the Scenic Railway and the general condition of the park. I assume Cliffc is not a local person, and therefore is not privy to what has been happening to the Dreamland site since Bembom Brothers ceased operating it.

I think we could all probably agree the current condition of the Scenic Railway is not ideal, but in the present climate, I think that it is a near miracle that it still running this year. I am not in the amusement park business, but feel that it is all too easy to criticise anything in life. However, to the outsider (me included) it is quite common to form conclusions, not being fully aware of what it actually takes to run such an attraction. Nothing in life is normally as simple as just showing up for work and pressing a few buttons. Unfortunately real life often presents many, sometimes unexpected, pitfalls, as I am sure have been fully experienced this season.

I would like to "take my hat off" to Dave and his Scenic crew for their stamina and determination in the operation of the railway for this critical season, against all odds. They deserve all the support that we can offer.

Reference to your comments re the sideshow operators; I'm not a huge fan of these, but when I passed one near the carousel the other week I thought the guy behind the stand sounded very professional and confident. I tend to admire anyone like that; I do not think that I could ever stand there all day and entice people along as he appeared to. Good on you! - I think it all adds to the atmosphere of the place.

Nice to hear the visitors from Rugby enjoyed theirselves on their recent visit; I'd just love to know what they'd have thought during the park's heyday, just seven years or so ago.

Bye for now,

Martin

[matt]

Cliffc,

This website is about saving the park and the scenic, you are of course entitled to your opinion, but the only reason I can think that you would post a negative message would be to raise a reaction. Thanks for your helpful comments.....

Your comments about the staff are unfair, agreed there are some people who do not smile and joke, but trust me, you even find the odd unhappy worker at other parks and their futures are generally secure. Did you actually talk to any one, particularly on the scenic?

Dave, Nick, Sarah and everyone involved have worked tirelessly to save what is left of the park. When future of the existing park is secured then the investment can be made.

However it is marvellous to see the scenic running at all this year, If you had actually ridden it, you would understand that mechanically it is as good as ever. Unfortunately it sounds like you just looked and drew your conclusions.

Just one final comment, would you have still travelled to Margate, from Ashford if there were a shopping complex on the dreamland site?

[Sarah]

It warms the cockles of my heart to see so much passion still in evidence eight long months into the Campaign!

Sarah

[bingocaller]

I think that it's a totally fair point that Cliff C made - and precisely what too many people in the town and further afield think. It just highlights the need for the campaign to highlight to people the reason why we need to save Dreamland - to be honest I think that most people think the campaign is entirely about the rollercoaster. For me it's more to do with the serious knock on effect that the closure of the main tourist attraction will have on the town as a whole - lets face it Margate has been far from vibrant for a long time!

If we are serious about saving Dreamland we've got to be realists and understand other points of view surely? At least if we know what poeple think we can make efforts to communicate more clearly what the aim is.

[Nick]

I can confirm that we are certainly not about saving Dreamland as it currently stands. We have a clear vision for the future of Dreamland that we have worked on with local people, organisations and a leading European theme park operator. The best place to find out about our vision for the site is in our Local Plan representations. You can find this here:

http://www.joylandbooks.com/scenicrailw ... anreps.htm

We will be looking at ways of communicating this vision for Dreamland to as many people as possible over the coming weeks. If anyone has any ideas (or can help with this), please let me know either on this board, or send me an email.

Nick

[Neil]

I'm personally glad that the staff running side shows keep a low profile. I personally would rather be left to enjoy my day without being pressured into spending even more money. When I went around American adventure, all day the staff started to follow us saying their side show was on special offer. I also thought that the Scenic Railways station looked splendid in its new paint and I noticed a lot of new wood. The staff were also very friendly and gave me a behind the scenes tour. I would like to take this oportunity to thank all the Scenic Railway staff for helping make my day the day it was.

[cliffc]

Hi all

I am sorry its taken me some time to reply to the reply's to my original message I have however been away for a few days these answers are in no order.

In answer to the question would we have visited Margate if Dreamland was not there the answer is yes as we did not know Deamland was there until we arrived, and this could be one of the problems the lack of publicity, in the hotel we stayed in, the tourist information rack had leaflets for most of the main attractions, the only amusement park there was a leaflet for was the one Southend, however nothing for the local one, once again if the current owners have given up on the place you can understand there reluctance to print promo material.

I never said the any of the rides were unsafe I just said I personaly did not like the looks of them, but on the railway i must admit I did not go round to the staiton side and I was only looking at this attraction from the seats located outside the bar area, and both me and my partner commented that the some of the wood looked old and in some areas a the metal areas looked a little rusty, I understand fully that all of the rides have to be issued with a safety certifiacte, also the water ride looked old too, ok now you may say that I have been spoild by the more modern rides at such attractions as Blackpool Pleasure Beach ect, I must admit we did not see the save Dreamland promotional stuff until we were walking back to the car. I still prefer to have the people on the stalls have a bit of banter, not to the extent that thay follow you around, but thats what I expect from side stall staff on a fair ground.

As I said in my original message I expected it to produce some responce the responce I got was much milder than I expected, we also did not know of the Railway before our visit to Margate and we saw it on the way in. Would we come back if Dreamland was not there, I think the answer would still be Yes as I we did like the resort in general (all though the locals in one of the pubs cannot remember which one did not seem too happy when I got 9 quid out of the bandit in there while my good lady used the loo)

I do appreciate that the site has obviously undergone a gradual state of decline, from what I have read here since the Benborm Bros give up operateing the park, to save the park I would still think the best option to revive it may be to close it remove everything except the railway and possibly the entrance building's and then completely rebuild the park from scartch around the railway, I am sure that if the current treand for warmer summers contnues a fully referbished park would continue to be an asset to Margate and pull in the visitors from far and near, along with better publicity ect.

Not being completly mad I understand that with the limited funds availible and the size and age of the railway as well as the seaside weather ravages it would be completely un-feasable both from a cost and man-hour point of view to keep every bit of wood looking 100%, I also appreciate that the guys who are working the ride are doing the best that thay can with what thay have availible to them, in the event that the park is saved then may be lottery funding could be sort to help with repairs and running costs, I for one would prefer to see my share of the charity funding going to some thing like this, than to the opera house in London ect, more people will get more pleasure from the Railway than from the Opera i am sure.

Just for the record I am from the North East of England (as close as i am telling you as I dont want the Margate mob coming up in the middle of the night and dawbing my house and car in save Dreamland stickerd (joke just incase any one thinks i am being serious)).

We had many amusement parks up here at one point but most of them have now closed or are in a worse state than Dreamland, the only one that still operates a good selection of rides and is in a good state of up keep is Ocein Park in South Sheilds, the parks at Seaton Carew and Redcar have long gone, the Spanish City at Whitley Bay is now a shadow of its former self as is the Fun Park at Roker. Some of these are or were only small places but in there time had a good selection of rides, Redcar was totaly indoors handy if the weather turned nasty, there was a Mad Mouse ride outside though, even Blackpool has lost Olympia as in indoor fun fair its now just used for record fairs ect.

In conclusion I hope you can save Dreamland but from what i read the owner has allready sold to the developer, so it would seem that its a pritty certian thing, even if you can get lots off support once its in the hands of the devolper, even if planning permision for what ever thay are planning is refused, thay can still just shut the gates and let the place rot. Ether option would be a shame both for the railway and the park, as if thay cannot do with it what thay want it would be much better for them to lease the place back to whoever and let them try to make it pay as an amusement park, thay cannot lose as thay get income from the rent money and Margate keeps an attraction.

Sorry for the long ramble but I think I have answered most of the points rased in the other messages. I will reply to any further comments in a few days as we are off to spend Bank Holliday Weekend In Blackpool (and no i wont be going on the big one either) just so you dont think this not wanting to ride the railway is an agest thing. We are only going to Blackpool as its not a 6.5 hour drive for us and its nothing personal against Margate.The other reason is being a Northern boy Blackpool is where I spent my summer holidays as a kid and like some of you who's first fun fair visit was to Dreamland mine was Blackpool Pleasure Beach, it also brings back memorys of my late mother who was allways the daring one and would accompany me on the rides of the time while dad took the photos and chickined out, and beleve me if thay ever attempted to close BPB I would be there with my support (not much chance of that mind with the numbers of visitors there) even with all the ideas of resort casinos Blackpool Council have left the Pleasure Beach there as part of its plans, Thannet Council take note I know thay get more visitors but it would seem Blackpool Council know that a seaside resort even one with casinos still needs a fun fair to attract visitors. and i am sure that if thay had wanted a resort casino on that site would proberly produce as much if not more income than the Pleasure Beach but thay have resisted that option there is a news paper thay produced giveing the full plan if the information in this would help your cause and you would like a copy send me a private message here before 12:30 Sat 23rd of Aug and ill get a copy for you if I can while I am there, I would have suggested BPB as ideal operators for Dreamland but if memory serves me correctly thay ownend and operated Morcambes frontearland so may be not.

P.S Sorry about me dodgy spelling but its 2am lol my brain and I are now going to sleep



Cliff C

[Vince, Charlie & Sam]

, The rides looked so old that I would not presonaly ride on any of them and that includes the railway which to me looked the worst of them all. .

Hello Cliff,

To answer your points, as I see them.........

Firstly, I have a very thorough understanding of mechanical engineering. The "Charlie and Sam" in this user name are five years old, and we ride the Scenic every week, usually several times. Twice today. five times last week, 14 times the week before.

Believe me, I would not take my children within a million miles of it if I thought it was even remotely unsafe.

Dreamland has suffered from a chronic lack of investment since the Bemboms` left, but this could be reversed. The site has enormous potential as a theme park, but does, as you say, need investment.

This is what should happen. In my (very humble) opinion, Thanet District Council should simply refuse outright any change of use, and should compulsarily purchase the site, before offering the franchaise to someone like Six Flags, or some other far-sighted theme park operator.

It`s a shame you didn`t ride the Scenic,it`s something very special. Try to correct this failing of yours as soon as possible!

Right, I`m off to sulk now at this sleight on my parenting abilities!

Vince

[porterm]

Hi Vince,

Just a little comment regarding if Six Flags were to acquire the park. I have been led to believe, despite my experience of some of their USA parks, that they would only really be interested in installing modern thrill rides, hence the Scenic Railway could still be threatened as it probably wouldn't fall into that category. If this is the case I think that a European operator would be in our best interests here, with a clear written intention to retain the Scenic Railway within their redevelopment proposals.

Then the new and the old attractions could live in perfect harmony. I sincerely hope this will be the case.

Martin

[bingocaller]

I would have thought that it was of greater importance to get someone to take on the park. Of course it's important that the scenic is maintained in it's original home but it doesn't look to me that people are falling over themselves to take on dreamland.