Thanks and Merry Christmas

The Save Dreamland Campaign was launched by Joyland Books in January 2003 and is now supported by several thousand people. This is the place to discuss all aspects of saving Margate's famous amusement park and its iconic , Grade II listed Scenic Railway, Britain's oldest roller coaster.

Moderators: dave771, porf, Sarah

Thanks and Merry Christmas

Postby porf » 24 Dec 2003, 17:24

Just to round the year off - Thanks to .....

Nick/Sarah/Dave : For all the hard work and effort put into the campaign and the running of the scenic this year.

Everyone involved in the '20s night. Cheers to Ian for putting up with sitting next to me for 3 and a bit hours and to Dave/Simon/John for 'driving'.

Here's hoping next year's a good one, Merry Xmas everyone!

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Postby Vince, Charlie and Sam » 27 Dec 2003, 20:07

Happy New Year from us!!!


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Postby porterm » 29 Dec 2003, 02:29

Hello Paul,

Loved the picture of your Scenic dragon heads with the Santa hats in the snow. What a novel way to display them; I hope it will be the first of their many appearances.

Happy new year to everyone, and let's hope it will be an especially special one for Dreamland.

Martin

PS Did any one ever determine their official origin?
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Postby porf » 29 Dec 2003, 11:42

Hi Martin,

Sarah had a call from Mick Tomlinson about the dragon heads (thanks for passing it on to me Sarah) - "He worked at Dreamland for 20-odd years and is more or less convinced that they came from one of the Scenic trains that were sold to Battersea."

I'm currently trying to get hold of a film shot in the '70s called 'Melody' (aka S.W.A.L.K) to see if there is any decent shots of the front of the cars as it is supposed to feature scenes shot on the scenic at Battersea. Unfortunately it seems to be a bit rare and could take me a while to get a reasonably priced copy.

The only other information that may help identify them is that one of them has had a nose job! It looks as if the nose and part of the mouth have fractured off at some point. Whilst not a bad replacement it looks to me as if it would have been done quickly whilst still in use rather than after it was removed from the ride when there would be no real hurry.
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Postby Nick » 29 Dec 2003, 13:37

I would agree that they may have come from Battersea, as several Dreamland trains went there. However, there were quite a few scenic railways around Britain, and I don't know whether they would have all had identical dragons heads to the ones at Margate. If they did, then your dragons heads could have come from any one of a number of scenics (there were almost 40 of them, I believe). I will have a look at some of my old photos and see if I can make out whether the dragons heads are the same on all scenics. At least we might be able to narrow it down for you.

I have a copy of the film 'Melody'/'S.W.AL.K.'. Although I haven't watched it for a few years, my recollection is that the only roller coaster featured is the Steel Stella on Clacton Pier. Perhaps this is the excuse I need to watch the film again. It is a great little film and has a fantastic soundtrack!

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Postby Graeme » 29 Dec 2003, 19:19

The original Dudley Moore/Peter Cook film "Bedazzled" has a scenic railway in it, possibly the Battersea one. Might be useful to check these against when it gets another showing.
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Postby Vince, Charlie and Sam » 29 Dec 2003, 19:45

Personally, I think that if they are still in the original paint, then they were probably not from Battersea since I doubt they went 50 years without a re-paint.

This is pure speculation though.

As a teenager I went on the Battersea Big Dipper (I lived in Eltham then).

When I told my Mum, she went mad, said it was unsafe, and forbade me from ever going on it again. The accident happened less than a month later.


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Postby Nick » 29 Dec 2003, 20:46

I have undertaken a quick piece of research!

Although it is well known that the Battersea Big Dipper used ex-Margate trains, I have several photos of the ride in operation (date unknown) and the trains are very different from those on the Scenic. They don't have dragons heads - they have curved fronts. So that is a mystery in itself.

The Scenic Railway at Belle Vue did have dragons heads identical to the ones you have acquired. There is a picture on page 62 of 'Roller Coasters: Shake Rattle and Roll' ( http://www.joylandbooks.com/books_new/coastersshake.htm ) and on the front cover of 'Looking Back at Belle Vue' (the cover picture is here: http://www.joylandbooks.com/books_new/l ... llevue.htm ). In the book 'Roller Coasters: Their Amazing History', there is even a close- up of the brakeman's seat, showing that there were also dragons heads next to that as on Dreamland's scenic, but they were slightly different to the ones on the front (less 'ornate' at the bottom).

The Scenic Railway at the Franco-British Exhibition also had identical dragons heads.

The Barry Island Scenic Railway didn't appear to have dragons heads, but that was a later and very different Scenic.

I am sure I have several more photos hidden away somewhere.

It seems like the 'first generation' scenics all had dragons heads. How many of the later ones did, I cannot say. It therefore seems likely that several scenic railways would have had similar dragons heads.

Yours might have come from the Belle Vue Scenic which was only demolished in the 1970s.

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Postby Vince, Charlie and Sam » 29 Dec 2003, 21:13

Nick wrote:
Yours might have come from the Belle Vue Scenic which was only demolished in the 1970s.

Nick




That`s what I thought, but did not dare to be so opinionated in the company of so many more knowledgeable people.

The third photo on this page

http://manchesterhistory.net/bellevue/T ... ilway.html

Shows a set with similar carvings.

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Postby Nick » 29 Dec 2003, 22:00

Yes, and there is an interesting quote on that website:

"The Scenic Railway is the true coaster's whorish little sister, impure and overdressed. The structure is covered in sheet material on which is painted an absurd succession of irrelevant snowy mountains and waterfalls. To the dedicated enthusiast the perfect logic of a plain framework is all sufficing. To liken the Scenic Railway to (the Bobs) is to compare a Gershwin rhapsody with a fugue."

You certainly can't say that about our Scenic. The Dreamland Scenic is as pure as pure can be!

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Postby Vince, Charlie and Sam » 29 Dec 2003, 22:16

Found this quote on Google.............


Melody Jack Wild
... seaside scenes were filmed in Weymouth except for the roller coaster which was filmed
at Battersea Funfair in London. Homepage for Melody aka SWALK and Jack ...
www.tracyhyde.net/melody-jack-wild.htm - 5k - Cached - Similar pages



Although the link has changed and does not take you to the quote mentioned.


Top of the first Pull-Up, arms up, here we go..............


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Postby Nick » 30 Dec 2003, 10:18

That is right - that website has said that for a long time. I wrote to him about two years ago to correct him and he thanked me and said he would update it but never did. The roller coaster scenes were most definitely filmed in Clacton, not Battersea. Besides the fact that the roller coaster is clearly the Steel Stella, the other clue is the fact that it is surrounded by the sea (the Steel Stella is located on Clacton Pier)!

It is funny how myths can grow on the internet with just one inaccurate web page!

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Postby Vince, Charlie and Sam » 30 Dec 2003, 11:57

I have seen several quotes on the internet stating that the Dreamland Scenic`s brakeman uses the brake lever to grab the pull-up cable, and that ain`t true either.........

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Postby Nick » 30 Dec 2003, 14:36

That is another internet myth - and I think I might be responsible for it! It is in my report to the DCMS that I submitted when I asked for the Scenic Railway to be listed. It has since been picked up and used by a few sources, despite it being completely wrong. The cable is picked up authomatically by a device under the train.

I can't remember who I got that information from originally, but I was put right fairly quickly after it was issued by David Wragg, the expert of all things to do with old roller coasters. I have been meaning to update it for the last two years, but never seem to find the time!

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Postby Vince, Charlie and Sam » 31 Dec 2003, 00:39

Nick wrote:Yes, and there is an interesting quote on that website:

"The Scenic Railway is the true coaster's whorish little sister, impure and overdressed. The structure is covered in sheet material on which is painted an absurd succession of irrelevant snowy mountains and waterfalls.



I`ve often wondered why the Margate roller-coaster is called a "scenic railway".

Every other "scenic railway" which I have photographs of, shows some kind of artificial scenery of the type described.

Even the earliest photos of the Margate Scenic Railway shows it to be pretty much as it is today.

Was it ever "dressed up"?


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