Margate, the Scenic, and today's Observer... GRRR!

The Save Dreamland Campaign was launched by Joyland Books in January 2003 and is now supported by several thousand people. This is the place to discuss all aspects of saving Margate's famous amusement park and its iconic , Grade II listed Scenic Railway, Britain's oldest roller coaster.

Moderators: dave771, porf, Sarah

Margate, the Scenic, and today's Observer... GRRR!

Postby EAS » 16 Aug 2009, 11:55

I once had a rather terse exchange of e-mails with one Rachel Cooke when she wrote some nonsense about Blackpool

(in the same sentence she says

I'm a fool for decaying northern towns; show me a frail-looking pier and I tear up.

I haven't been to Blackpool since I was a girl - my granny took us to Pontins


which means, "Since I'm being paid to write an article I slum it for a day, although I haven't been back since that one time at Pontins"...)


its woodies, and suggested that we 'enthusiasts' were somehow missing a trick by not realising that they weren't listed and we should see to it asap.

I came to Blackpool expecting to hate it; my stepfather, who grew up there, pronounced it 'a dump' and wished me luck. But I came away telling everyone what fun I'd had, from gawping at the circus to riding the Grand National rollercoaster at the Pleasure Beach (it dates from 1935 and is - attention rollercoaster nerds - one of only three surviving Moebius loop coasters in the world). If these things, and gems like the Tower Circus and the North Pier, aren't worth preserving, I'm not sure what is


http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2007/aug/0 ... achelcooke

Yeah right, Rache. Maybe you know a little better by now, and appreciate that the Nash was refused a listing in 2000 and if that wasn't going to be listed not a lot else possibly was going to be, and if we try BPB is likely to demolish before anyone gets a chance to visit to assess. Yes we know, we know, we don't need journalists to tell us what we already know about the failure of Those Responsible to take our seaside heritage too seriously. (Pleasureland, anyone? Flattened to make a 'classic resort'?) It's not our fault. We really aren't dimwits.

as for Margate, her research got as far as:

Margate
Kent

Then The first resort to introduce donkey rides, in 1890, and deck chairs in 1898, the pioneering Margate was the seaside spot of choice for Londoners until the Fifties.

Now Infamous for violence between mods and rockers in the 1960s, and for high unemployment rates, renewed affection for Margate came with the 2005 reopening of the Dreamland Amusement Park. Margate's own Tracey Emin is thought to have backed proposals to open the Turner Contemporary art gallery by the harbour.


Hmmmm. 2005?

So she's at it again in today's Observer.

http://m.guardian.co.uk/ms/p/gmg/op/vie ... at=Culture

If Margate were a blind date, waiting for you at a bar, you would turn on your heel and run. Who wants to spend an evening with a man whose front teeth are missing, whose expression is permanently leery, whose tatty clothes smell of stale chip fat and worse? And yet I fall for the town in the time it takes me to walk from the station to the prom. It's not that I don't try to resist. No sooner am I off my train than I'm counting the number of shops that are boarded up: those missing teeth. But when I get to 12 in almost as many paces I give this up as too depressing. Then it happens. Standing outside the elegant but derelict Dreamland cinema on the seafront - it's from 1935, the first English cinema to be modelled on the Titania Palast in Berlin, a style later made famous by Odeon - I look out towards the harbour wall where, in just two years' time, the town's new gallery, Turner Contemporary, designed by the architect David Chipperfield, will open its ritzy doors. Beside it, Margate's pastel Georgian houses are hunkered beneath the sky like little old ladies in coloured raincoats, and no wonder. As skies go, this one is as big and as brooding as they come, dirty clouds scudding across it as if they were in some strange meteorological race. The effect is beautiful, and extraordinary. It makes you ache for Margate: for all that it was, and for all that it could still be. Suddenly I'm head over heels in love.


Nice mention of the Shell Grotto (did she talk to you, Sarah?)

But back to Margate, where I am standing in the cold and soft drizzle. I have an appointment to see Victoria Pomery, the director of Turner Contemporary. First, though, I am going to look round. Let's see. The further I walk, the more boarded-up shopfronts I find; and yes, there are lots of signs offering cheap booze, breakfast all day, and all you-can-eat buffets. Nevertheless, Margate is invincibly lovely. It has the second oldest theatre in Britain, the Theatre Royal, which is exceedingly beautiful, and which is now run by someone very imaginative (his name is Will Wollen). It has a terrace of houses, recently restored, which looks just like New York's Flatiron building in miniature. It has the mysterious and beautiful Shell Grotto, a (Grade I listed) series of subterranean chambers whose walls are decorated with 4.6m cockles, whelks, mussels and oysters, and yet whose purpose, 174 years after its discovery, remains obscure. (Is it a pagan temple? A Regency folly? I don't know, but I love it either way.) It even has a nice old-fashioned hotel, the Walpole Bay, with its 1927 Otis trellis-gated lift servicing every floor. Not to mention fresh shellfish, which I buy from a family-run shack by the harbour, and scoff with a wooden fork. Does it really need a swanky art gallery, or would it be better served by a little love and attention, a decent marketing campaign, and some passionate word of mouth?



But Dreamland?


In 2008 there was the arson attack at Dreamland, Margate's famous amusement park, a fire which destroyed sections of its beloved Scenic Railway (the oldest operating rollercoaster in Britain and the first to be listed - Grade II - by English Heritage), and which effectively closed the doors of the park, in its current incarnation, for ever


Actually Rache EH doesn't list the Secretary of State has the final say, it's the ONLY roller coaster to be listed, and oh we do hope that Dreamland has closed its doors in its 'current incarnation' forever, as, em, a small bit of googling might have told you, it's currently a wasteland and had been for quite some time before the arson attack. See Rache, it's CLOSED. That's as in SHUT, NOT OPERATIONAL, and many another such expressions of finality. So you see, Rache, some of us don't want that to continue.

We (that's not we as in anyone connected with Dreamland) talk about the Dreamland project in Margate: local enthusiasts have been buying up heritage pleasure rides - most recently, Blackpool Pleasure Beach's Junior Whip - and are now raising money so that Dreamland can be reopened as the world's first amusement park of historic rides (the Deco cinema will also be restored, as a museum of street style). Last month the Dreamland Trust ... was awarded £384,500 by the Heritage Lottery Fund for its development plans; as I write, they await a decision on a £4m application to Sea Change. We both love this idea, born of local enthusiasm and pride. It seems to belong to Margate already - a privilege its new gallery will have to earn.

Perhaps it all comes down to what you call culture. I can think of few things lovelier than looking at a tempestuous Turner sky in the place where he painted it. But I also think that old wooden rollercoasters count as culture, too - not to mention fish and chips and mushy peas and Tizer. These things are part of who we are. They make our lives better, just as art does, and theatre, and music. To combine them, then, is very heaven. For our battered seaside resorts, all 250 of them, this must surely be the future.



Well yes - but did you not actually talk to anyone from the Dreamland Trust? Not as far as I can see. And yet you visited the Shell Grotto?

Locals? I'm not 'local' by any stretch of the imagination, and nor are many who support the revival of Dreamland. How about, also, all those other agencies involved? And part of what's happening is out of sheer bloody desperation, that historic seaside amusement parks are closing and rides being lost (as in bulldozed, as in Cyclone?). To late, Rache, too bloody late, that suddenly you have discovered what's happening. They are gone, and gone forever. 250? In yer dreams. Woodies - Blackpool, Gt Yarmouth, and well, that's it really. Scenic we can but hope is operational once more. Where have you been since that exchange of several e-mails in 2007, pointing out some of the problems? A little more support from the national media wouldn't have been such a bad thing.

How much do journos get paid for this stuff? Too %$£"&*^ much, whatever it is.

rachel dot cooke at observer dot uk is her e-mail, for anyone else wanting a rant directly...


Last week she wrote an article moaning about a weekend at Broadstairs. Well, of course, dear, the reason places like this have become rundown, and why they are trying to reinvent themselves through things other than the trad seaside attractions, is because the chattering classes who write for the Londoncentric meeja haven't exactly been supportive have they, for the past twenty years or so, jetting off for hols to Tuscany, and when they do like to be beside the seaside it's Whitstable and Southwold, where you can meet up with chums from the London meeja sporting their Boden, and not worry about dereliction and uncouth locals. So possibly that's why it wasn't just waiting for you to discover it, with bijou caffs and stuff springing up just because suddenly you deign to grace the place for an entire weekend in search of retro fun (enjoyed with a tinge of irony, natch)? (And when the finances pick up, will you still be writing about it all then?)

http://m.guardian.co.uk/ms/p/gmg/op/sLa ... cat=Search

Here's the menu and pricelist of the Sportsman at Seasalter, where the poor dear had to go to eat:

http://www.thesportsmanseasalter.co.uk/menus.shtml


as there was nowhere in Broadstairs which could serve her fish. What, no local chippy with those mushy peas and Tizer this week you rave about? (At the prices charged in the Sportsman, which is actually Whitstable, you could feed a family for a month at my local chippy.)

Nor could we find anywhere for dinner in the town. Or at least, not if we wanted to eat fresh fish, which seemed a reasonable enough desire, given our, er, proximity to the sea. Instead, we drove for 40 minutes to the Sportsman in Seasalter, where we devoured oysters and turbot, marvelled at the briny freshness of both and resisted the temptation to kiss the landlord by way of thanking him for his Kentish missionary zeal
.

(Whitstable Native Oysters £2.50 each, no mention of turbot on the sample menu, but Braised brill fillet with a mussel tartare £19.95)


Her article prompted a number of letters:


The Observer Letters Sun 16 Aug 2009 13:45 BST

Reading Rachel Cooke's piece ("Bugger Broadstairs for another holiday", Comment, last week) was enough to almost ruin any Sunday lunch. Her assertions cry out for correction.

Coffee? One hundred yards left, 100 yards right or 100 yards straight up the high street. Sea food restaurants, serving fresh fish? Two hundred yards right, 200 yards left.

There is no mention of the excellent Dickens House Museum or Crampton Tower or the Heritage and historic walks to guide you through the town or even the award-winning St Peter's Village Tour.

And I write from a town heaving with music and dance, ringing from every hostelry, cafe and cranny, as Folk Week struts its stuff.

Perhaps you feel more comfortable with Whitstable, the BBC's second-home heaven, known locally as Islington by the sea. I must go. A morris man is pressing a handkerchief in my hand and, when I am done, excellent coffee and fish await those who know where to go and don't fear a few yards'walk.

Chris Wells

Parish and district councillor, Viking Ward, Broadstairs, Kent.



Median net household income in this area is not over £20,000 and few visiting families have net household incomes exceeding £40,000. Whitstable is 40 minutes nearer London and can attract the critical mass of rich people to make high-quality restaurants a going concern. Most English resorts share Broadstairs problem. Ridiculous property and rental prices put all of Britain's hospitality trade at a disadvantage compared with the Med.

David Hopker

Broadstairs, Kent



■ I was sad to see Ye Olde Englishe Holidaye so maligned. I feel that Rachel has missed the point of her holiday. In terms of a Proustian recherche she would have been much better off going back to Pontins as the nostalgia induced by childhood memories cannot be underestimated. Once you remember that England is more photographer Martin Parr than retro designer Cath Kidston you're laughing.

Fran Colomb

London SE3


Interesting to hear that Rachel Cooke was instantly able to secure a table at the Sportsman in Seasalter. We normal mortals have to book at least three months ahead.

Martin Kane

Canterbury, Kent


and others besides:

http://m.guardian.co.uk/ms/p/gmg/op/sBR ... cat=Search



Aaaaaaarrrrrrrgggggghhhhhh!
Ferengi Rules of Acquisition: Rule 76. Every once in a while, declare peace. It confuses the hell out of your enemies.
User avatar
EAS
 
Posts: 1886
Joined: 18 Sep 2006, 09:09
Location: North

Postby Nick Evans » 16 Aug 2009, 18:50

Well, the only good thing I can think of in connection with this article is there is a possibility The Observer newspaper may be shut down sometime soon - so we'll all have the last laugh. Trouble is, it will be done to save the bacon of that other nauseating leftist rag The Grauniad.

Since when was Whitstable 40 miles from Margate - I usually do it in half that distance!

Last week's paper will be today's chip wrapper by now - oh sorry, gone to the recycle I mean - so it will hopefully be soon forgotten

As a fellow journo - and one who works at less than half the rate she gets BTW - I would have been happy to guide Rachel C around both Margate and Whitstable so that she could have seen both places as locals see them.
Nick Evans
 
Posts: 116
Joined: 30 Dec 2003, 21:32

Postby EAS » 17 Aug 2009, 07:42

I note that for all Ms Cooke's blather about Margate being the place for fish, chips, mushy peas and Tizer, as, along with woodies these are part of our seaside 'cultural heritage', she didn't actually manage to eat any there.

Indeed no. She writes at length about the East Beach and West Beach caffs at Littlehampton, whose owners she seemed to have talked to about Dreamland, although not with anyone connected with Dreamland.

http://www.eastbeachcafe.co.uk/index.html

http://www.eastbeachcafe.co.uk/menus/mainmenu.html

Well, real fish n chips from a paper is possibly one step slumming it too far.

No price list for the West Beach, newly built to designs by a young architect, where she claims she ate her fish and chips, but the East Beach, a large piece of contemporary architecture by Heatherwick, does have a menu with prices available on the internet.

Not much sign of Tizer. A 'summer aperitif' of white peach and prosecco is on offer at £4.95. Possibly she can't tell the difference?

'Beer battered' fish and chips? £9.50. No mushy peas, but a side of 'pea puree' is three quid a portion.

A burger (with mushroom and cheese) and chips is £9, side salad another £3.

They were the cheap things on the menu.

Struth. No doubt the new caff in the Turner will be serving such stuff?

I also wonder if she did actually visit the Walpole Bay, or the Shell Grotto... too much of her copy sounds lifted from websites.

http://www.walpolebayhotel.co.uk/

Were last week's articles and this an exercise in showing how to get a free lunch (or two) and getting paid for it at the same time?

PS for any Lunnon journo reading this who has no idea what Tizer might be, it has a website too

http://www.tizer.co.uk/
Ferengi Rules of Acquisition: Rule 76. Every once in a while, declare peace. It confuses the hell out of your enemies.
User avatar
EAS
 
Posts: 1886
Joined: 18 Sep 2006, 09:09
Location: North

Postby kevinashe » 17 Aug 2009, 16:06

Writers of articles rarely talk to sources that are directly involved the projects that they are researching.Eas with regards to your comments on listing coasters,i thought there were new rules in place this year regarding demolition while a building/structure was being investigated for listing.Nine years ago the nash was refused listing but look how much seaside fair heritage has been lost since then,perhaps an application now would be looked at more sympathetically.Its a pity only enthusiasts care for the remaining woodies as if it haddent been for nick and co the scenic would have been flattened a long time ago.
kevinashe
 
Posts: 305
Joined: 14 Feb 2007, 20:42

Postby Gary » 17 Aug 2009, 18:10

I hope noone takes what I'm about to say personally (It's just so difficult trying to articulate via typing rather than speaking face to face) but after reading the article (and yes, discrepancies aside) I do feel Ms Cooke succeeds in painting the Dreamland project in a positive light.

That's got to be good hasn't it? :)

Gary
Please pass through the turnstiles if you are riding again.
Gary
 
Posts: 537
Joined: 26 Jan 2003, 21:45
Location: St Helens

Postby porf » 17 Aug 2009, 19:42

Gary : I thought pretty much the same.

Read in it's entirety rather than EAS's selective quoting and nit-picking the article was primarily about art galleries, with a bit of food thrown in as it's a Sunday paper article. The prose was a touch flowery for my liking but that's the Sunday press for you again.

On the whole the businesses and projects mentioned otherwise were more for scene setting than anything and I would have thought the Grotto, Walpole, etc whether visited or otherwise (and there was no statement that they were personally visited) would be happy with the positive mentions they got.

Overall it seemed to highlight the positive aspects of Margate, it's regeneration plans and the the SaveDreamland campaign.

Whilst the previous article on Broadstairs was pretty much a hatchet job I found little to be outraged about in this one - and felt it was a positive article.
Paul Freeman
User avatar
porf
Site Admin
 
Posts: 504
Joined: 04 Jun 2003, 20:35
Location: London

Postby EAS » 17 Aug 2009, 21:00

I thought it a badly researched, very inaccurate and probably rushed page filler, from a lightweight, overpaid journo (two large pages with pics) and this from what is supposed to be a 'quality' Sunday, not the food pages, and really, it came to few conclusions. Not sure what the point was. I wished I had had the editorial pen to reduce so much of the overwriting.

As with last week, it seemed to be for a free mention of her pet watering holes.

No wonder the Observer is struggling to stay afloat.

Dreamland was dragged in as a counterpoint to larger schemes; to suggest that it is a local collection of people and no mention that it is rather bigger than that, with a number of official agencies involved, was a little disingenuous.

If she really thinks that fish n chips are a great idea, then why eat them at a rather expensive place in Littlehampton, and not at Margate? I wonder just how much time she actually spent, before getting the hell out asap.

Does she really think that all Margate needs is a lick of paint and a bit more PR?

I can take the entire article apart and critique it all if you wish, but I suspect you won't wish.
Last edited by EAS on 17 Aug 2009, 21:06, edited 1 time in total.
Ferengi Rules of Acquisition: Rule 76. Every once in a while, declare peace. It confuses the hell out of your enemies.
User avatar
EAS
 
Posts: 1886
Joined: 18 Sep 2006, 09:09
Location: North

Postby EAS » 17 Aug 2009, 21:04

No Kevin, no new rules, the Bill was withdrawn. And listing is really not so simple especially once something has been refused.

It's not only about sympathy, it's about procedure.
Ferengi Rules of Acquisition: Rule 76. Every once in a while, declare peace. It confuses the hell out of your enemies.
User avatar
EAS
 
Posts: 1886
Joined: 18 Sep 2006, 09:09
Location: North

Postby Gary » 17 Aug 2009, 21:26

Hi EAS

I read what you are saying.

I found the article a little 'twee' but I like the bit towards the end of her article - The bit that stayed with me and hopefully the readers too.

That bit that plugged The Grotto and the Dreamland vision and the fact that culture can equal rollercoasters.

For me it's one of those very rare cases when I have read an article and not cared much about the means because the end is justified - I don't care too much for the context because at the end of the day the advertising is great.

My thoughts only. :)
Please pass through the turnstiles if you are riding again.
Gary
 
Posts: 537
Joined: 26 Jan 2003, 21:45
Location: St Helens

Postby EAS » 17 Aug 2009, 21:44

But really Dreamland was being used; it isn't what she said it was, it was made rather light of in fact, and if she seriously thinks that all seaside resorts need is a historic woodie and a chippy and people will flock, then I fear we are doomed! She obviously did a rapid google to fill in a great deal, not exactly searing investigative journalism. Wonder how long she stayed before scurrying off back to the safety of Littlehampton?

Yes it got a mention, but the article could have been so much better. If I wanted this sort of lightweight reporting, with nothing much of use to say about a way forward for coastal towns, I wouldn't read what used to be a decent paper (sorry Nick, I'm a sandal wearing hand knitted spaghetti leftie Guardian reader to the core... they even print my letters... )

Rant over.
Ferengi Rules of Acquisition: Rule 76. Every once in a while, declare peace. It confuses the hell out of your enemies.
User avatar
EAS
 
Posts: 1886
Joined: 18 Sep 2006, 09:09
Location: North

Postby EAS » 19 Aug 2009, 06:45

Another article on seaside architecture with a Margate mention, albeit a small one:

http://entertainment.timesonline.co.uk/ ... 725215.ece


and yes, the architecture critic of the Times, on the panel of the Stirling prize etc, really did get married in Morecambe, with the 'do' at the Midland.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/cultureshow/videos ... morecambe/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/culturesho ... 15/detail/
Ferengi Rules of Acquisition: Rule 76. Every once in a while, declare peace. It confuses the hell out of your enemies.
User avatar
EAS
 
Posts: 1886
Joined: 18 Sep 2006, 09:09
Location: North

Postby Bob » 24 Aug 2009, 11:08

The reality is though that the article is correct. Both Blackpool & Margate
are run down dumps. People are not going to take holidays i towns that look like a tip and have no facilities. First impressions count as well
Standards have to rise dramtically and the town centres made to look inviting and provide quality facilities for visitors. Neither Margate or Blackpool come anywhere near even a minimum standard
Bob
 
Posts: 509
Joined: 30 Nov 2003, 21:21

Postby EAS » 24 Aug 2009, 12:45

Really? Is that why so many visit then? When was the last time you were in either places?

And actually, didn't the article PRAISE Margate? It's just the downscaling of the Dreamland plans , which are so much more than it suggested, I really felt ranty about - that and Lunnon journos.
Ferengi Rules of Acquisition: Rule 76. Every once in a while, declare peace. It confuses the hell out of your enemies.
User avatar
EAS
 
Posts: 1886
Joined: 18 Sep 2006, 09:09
Location: North

Postby Bob » 24 Aug 2009, 16:20

The reality is Margate gets relatively few visitors. Are you seriously suggesting that the run down dump that goes as a town centre will attract people. It has no facilities at all. You would be hard pressed to find a decent restaurant.

Blackpool is still attracting significant numbers but it has been in serious decline for very many years. It has also decided to move down market. Probably not a sensible decision. If you don't belive me lok at the visitot number over the last 20 years.
They now struggle to fill the place during the illuminations, something unheard of until recent times.

People expect much higher standards nowadays and seaside resorts are not provinding them. The average seaside resort now has far fewr facilties and standards are lower then they were 20 years ago.
Bob
 
Posts: 509
Joined: 30 Nov 2003, 21:21

Postby Nick Evans » 24 Aug 2009, 16:22

Bob, it's at least partly thanks to people like your former/current employer that Margate has gone the way it has. I don't know about Blackpool, I haven't been there for five years - but even then it still had something going for it.

Bob overlooks the fact his employer owns several flats in Arlington House and by implication, at least, has a responsibility for its condition and continued existence!

Yes, Margate is a run down dump and has got to improve its act - considerably so if it's going to have any chance at all. Recent national news items about the number of shops vacant in the town centre isn't exactly positive publicity. And that hopefully, is where Dreamland comes in. So many say to me a revived Dreamland is what Margate needs if the place is going to regenerate, I've lost count.

I could go on about certain Thanet/county councillors and officers being too stupid to realise what they should be doing as well but that's a) too easy - like taking candy off a baby! and b) I'd have to start another blog so you may as well turn to to Eastcliff Richard for that sort of thing.
Nick Evans
 
Posts: 116
Joined: 30 Dec 2003, 21:32

Next

Return to Save Dreamland Campaign Forum

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 29 guests