Joyland Books

I know that this is a bit off topic but as it's very relevant to Margate as a tourism destination, I felt it appropriate to post here.

Thanet District Council has submitted a Planning Application to build houses on part of the Margate Caves site. The Caves were closed to the public in 2006 because of Health & Safety concerns. With Margate on the brink of a bright new tourism future, we believe that this is an ill-conceived proposal that will extinguish any hope of the Caves being re-opened as a tourist attraction. In addition, the houses proposed for the site are of poor design and are immediately adjacent to a conservation area.

If you would like to read the application, you should go to:

http://www.ukplanning.com/ukp/custom/fo ... wd=search/

and search for application number: F/TH/10/0546

If you would like to object to the application, click the Comment on Application button.

Or you can go straight to the Comment page here:

http://www.ukplanning.com/ukp/createCom ... F10%2F0546

You will need to complete your name and address. Then click Object to the proposal

All objections need to be made by Tuesday so please act quickly to safeguard the Caves.

Thank you.

I've just tried to put in my objection, but when I clicked 'submit' I was told that there was an 'internal error' (?!) and to come back later. I WILL try again later - the Caves should definitely be made safe if necessary and then re-opened, and they shouldn't allow housing on the site.......you would think they'd have learnt their lesson from the whole Dreamland scenario......

You got the error because the link is no good. View the application and then click on comment on this proposal and you will be able to record your objection.

Thanks - have done it now!

Thanks for your support Jo, much appreciated.

Hello

Of course, if anyone wants to support the application they should! But if you'd like some ideas for objection comments, a few follow:

I believe that this proposal does nothing to safeguard the Margate Caves and almost completely extinguishes any prospect of them re-opening as a tourist attraction.

In addition, the houses proposed are of poor design, and would represent a discordant and derivative addition to the built environment immediately adjacent to a conservation area.

Many millions of pounds of public money have been invested in Margate’s future as a tourist resort, both at Turner Contemporary and Dreamland. We stand on the brink of a bright new future for the town, but tourism experts speak of the need for a ‘broad offer’ ie a range of attractions for the visitor to enjoy.

This proposal removes all of the Caves’ roadside presence, thus rendering them invisible from the highway. More importantly it takes any land that might be utilised for ancillary uses, such as a gift shop and café. It is generally accepted that secondary spend is vital to a tourist attraction’s viability, often accounting for at least 50% of turnover. The removal of land for this purpose effectively renders the Caves unviable as a business proposition. (The damp conditions in the Caves themselves preclude the creation of an underground shop/café.)

The proposal sees the loss of the original access tunnel (created in 1914 by tunnelling from the cellars of the Vicarage for incumbents to gain safety during air raids). Indeed it suggests that this tunnel is infilled. There is a suggestion that Forsters Entrance could be brought back into use, but details as to how this might be achieved are completely lacking.

Forsters Tunnel was filled with rubble and sealed off after the bombing of Holy Trinity Church and Northumberland House. Research suggests that it was last used in 1941, so we cannot know – without extensive surveying – whether it represents a suitable alternative entrance.

Crucially, there is no assurance that Forsters Entrance will be opened before the existing entrance is closed.

There is no provision for testing the ground under the proposed development for any unknown caves/voids. There are known caves across Northdown Road under Flint House so it is not inconceivable that there may be something south of the Vortigern Caves, under the proposed development site. Also it is known that there was at least one WW1 'dug-out' dug somewhere near the Caves – however, the exact location is unknown.

Adam Single, the Archaelogical Officer at Kent County Council, has reported that there is potential for iron age and Romano-British remains on the site. This is, therefore, a potentially important historical site even without considering the Vortigern Caves.

Lastly, this proposal flies in the face of the results of TDC’s own Margate Caves Consultation (2009). Over 90% of respondents opposed the sale and development of the site. Specific concerns voiced included infilling of any part of the Caves and the potential loss of a tourist attraction for the town. Representations included one from Margate Civic Society and a petition of 2,592 signatures.

The Margate Caves are an important and fascinating part of the town’s tourism offer. Their potential worth is far greater than that of seven poorly-designed houses.

Sarah

I have just objected - just put a basic argument in - just cannot understand why anything with a bit of character is such an easy target for mindless idiots, who just want to make a bit of money.....Crazy. ...enough flats and houses in thanet - many empty.....!!!????

This should not happen
Once lost, they will be lost forever.
The general public are not aware of this and I am sure if it was in the public domain - there would be many objections.

Quick reminder....the closing date for objections is tomorrow.

Hi all

Just got my tuppence worth in. Sadly, I never got to visit the caves but would indeed like the opportunity to do so in the future. (In my younger days I guess I wasn't somehow enticed to even cross the road as I passed them with my family).

Hopefully some common sense will prevail or we could well lose yet another historic landmark/tourist attraction.

Martin

PS I met a young lady yesterday at the jazz festival who described herself as working in regeneration, having fairly recently moved to Margate. She told me how committed the Council now were regarding Dreamland's resurgence.

I sent this:

Considering the upcoming rebirth of Dreamland and the general unemployment situation in the area, it seems ill conceived to build yet more housing on a potential tourist attraction and so close to a conservation area. For Margate to flourish in the long term, consideration needs to be given to its unique seaside charms.
Kyle Sund

Gee. I got an actual response letter from them in the mail this week.
Does everyone get them or do the y remember me from the last exchange I had with them a few years ago. (Stating I'd make it my personal business to see who was getting kickbacks if something wasn't done to protect Dreamland).

I got a proper letter too - I must say I was quite surprised!

I had an actual printed letter reply toojust for the record.

Martin

I had a letter too, but not mean that they will listen !

I have always thought it would be better if Margate Caves were in private ownership like the Shell Grotto is, and this would be what I would tell TDC if I thought they would take a blind bit of notice.