Joyland Books

While commenting on another thread earlier it got me thinking.

Will this all really work. I'm all for nostalga but I just can't see this new Dreamland working and I so much want it too yes I will be going down this year to see with my own eyes how things are going, and yes I'll be there when the park opens but after that as much as I hope I just can't see it happening. The previous Dreamland/s were full of rides you wanted to go back and ride time and time again because they were modern, but filling a park with old wooden rides that people stopped wanting to ride what is now decades rater than years ago I really can't see it working. The only reason Dramland has them is because either no one wanted them or parks closed due to people not coming in to ride them. Why if you put them all together will they suddenly become attractive.

The previous parks were at the cutting edge of attractions because as I could see it from reading articals and with my own eyes they suck to a formula of adopting a theme and sticking to it in all dimensions. The new plans don't seem to. Take a look across the country at present and all the heritage attractions across all aspects they are true to their theme in heritage. The new Dreamland seems to capture that in the rides but not the other attractions / consessions it seems to be modern designs made to look old. If it is going to work then it all must be old you must hold the amosphere. Take a look at Blackpool they has some of these what you may call 'Retro' bars and diners. They are all closed people are not fooled by it

I fear Dreamland may become one of those one shot wonders people will come to see just because its new but how many will keep coming back as they did previously. Its in the south of the country (which might I add is a verybeauiful place in the world) but does not offer the advantage of something a little more central to pull folks from north south east and west in large numbers and yes I'm aware it was the most visited park for rail and entrance combined tickets in its day but that was its day. A heritage park wil not hold the the same attraction as a white knuckle park.

Which then set me thinkng on entrane fees I assume that in line with most other attractions today and harking back to the Bembom days there will be an entrance fee raher than a pay as you go type of thing because suerly it cannot be risked that if people come and its not what they are expecting and just have one ride the money lost between that and a gate fee could not be huge. Does anyone haveany ideas what this will be bearing in mind we are in mid recession and times are hard. (Please don't say there has been no decision made there must be some idea even if its only ball park).

This then brought me on to Margate itself. I's on its knees totally and it needs a major attraction, but by my reckoning it would take around 5 years for The Margate tourism industry to recover o an acceptable level and by then I'm afraid there may be many people calling for Dreamland to be closed due to it being supported by Heritage and Government Grants and where does that leave Margate then.

Then there is he site. Is the whole of the original site being used for the Heritage Dreamland if not is the other part being retained. The New Dreamland must retain all of the site if its sucessful and despite all I've said I really hope it is then expansion must be key you cannot rest on what you stat with new rides must be added as they become available and can be afforded not others taken out to make room.

Finally having read majority of the posts and nes aricals over the last few years I really the heitage idea was simply an after thought which snowballed after the ' I Dream Of Dreamland' idea became either too difficultor unsupportable due to the owership of the land. Yet here we are so far down the line and I salute Nick and his team for their hard work and dedication over the years. They pledged Deamland and its name would live on.

And it does !

But for how long ?

I hope forever !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


LETS RIDE THE RAILS

I will answer this in three words.

Adventure Island Southend.

hmm, i see what you mean to some extent.

I also see where you coming from regarding the whole thrill ride thing. Yeah we have the scenic, but i suppose the odd spinning ride won't really attract the younger market, which is perhaps the most vital.

I've already had to convince my school friends to go when it opens, because they saw the ride list and just said 'im not going, the rides are crap'.
I explained the whole heritage thing, but i suppose that wears off after a while.. :/

Grants, and where does that leave Margate then. as long as people play the lottery I don't see the grants drying up.

You do have a point but starting up a theme park especialy in the current financial climate is going to be costly even with grants etc.
My thoughts are; heritage park to begin with and then to add the odd modern ride later on.
The demand for Dreamland in my view is very much still there if advertised well. I think the biggest concern in this whole 50% land issue. Another part of Margates potential gone if the other half gets boxed in with cheap housing.

Yup. Cheap housing means vagrants and thugs and vandalism, and that element scares tourists away.

Anyway, have you bothered to read the main site and the rest of this board?

Dreamland will likely end up not only as a national attraction, but with the inclusion of sandwich and coffee shops, etc, and a restored park-like setting, a place where locals will go for lunch or a sunset visit.
I've been suggesting over and over to keep the admission free. This should help keep the locals coming back again and again to enjoy just being inside and grabbing a bite to eat, or passing the afternoon or evening.

The powers that be are working hard to make sure that every aspect of the complex - park, cinema, waterfront, other local attractions, are open and available for the most possible uses.
The cinema will hopefully be used for various film festivals. The potential for that is endless.
We just wrapped up a Film Noir (1935-1955 cops and dames movies) here that's grown from five days to seven, to ten days this year.

Dreamland itself will be home to not only an amazing collection of vintage rides and games, but also boutique eateries and greenspace where people can stretch out with some good food and drink, but it will play host to almost weekly events such as the yearly steam driven amusements fair, car shows, musical acts. I suspect Dreamland will attract enough locals that it'll hardly be dependent on long distance tourists.

"All things to everyone." (Slade. "Run Runaway," 1983)

Quite honestly, if you put in as much effort volunteering for the campaign as you did considering how it can all fail, your energies would be better spent. As it is, I find it hard to take seriously the thoughts of anyone with such poor spelling and grammar. With so little effort put into those thoughts, they really don't carry much weight. Isn't it a little early and counterproductive to predict the demise of Dreamland just yet?
Maybe you could grab a paintbrush or a broom when the time comes and fell like you have a stake in the place.

You know what topic title I'd like to see?

"How can I help right now?"

Hi Kyle

In reply to your comments of

‘have I bothered to read the rest of the site’?

Yes I have!

Don’t get me wrong and as I commented I want to see Dreamland survive, but my question still stands.

Will it?

A cheap jibe at spelling and grammar is also not really the answer, and maybe a reaction I no doubt expected from someone on the site when I read the post back, but judging by your previous intelligent and informative quotes maybe it was not you I expected it from.

(P.S. I was trying to type on my lap in a room full of people yesterday. I’m at my desk tonight so should hopefully be a bit better).

Jumping up and down and suggesting I get a broom or paint brush in my hand is also just as non productive. Plus if you are where your location suggests and I have no reason to doubt you are, then its more than likely just as impractical for me who is over 200 miles away to ‘get a paint brush or broom’ as it is yourself. Although, I appreciate easier for me to get there.

I am fully aware that the powers that be are working hard to ensure every aspect of Dreamland is spot on and I referred to Nick and his teams efforts in my original post.

I am also fully with you on the admission suggestion, but such is he trend in this country today that I fear a gate fee will be charged as it is on many other attractions. The only reason I suggest this is because on reading ‘epiclyawesome’s comment above you only have a list of rides so far and the younger generation that Amusement parks rely on to ride the attractions time and time again are already negative so they won’t want them going in a spending a few quid and deciding its not for them. The locals will not keep this park going it needs long distance tourists to keep it going and also to rebuild Margate.

There is such an opportunity here to effectively turn Margate in to the Blackpool of the south, a serious rival to Brighton, but only Dreamland can do it. Margate must have a Theme Park to pull the crowds in. A local community that already spends majority of its money in its local area has already proved its not enough to support and rebuild the area, hence all the boarded up shops and units. It needs the long distance tourists who don’t live by the sea, want ‘kiss me quick’ hats, rock, candy floss and all the other things that come with it. Margate and Dreamland will never be anything else than these things it’s a true English seaside resort, and suggests it in every photo you look at of the good times. Therefore it needs the element that separates the good from the great a first class Amusement / Theme Park.

I can’t argue with any of the comments you make re sandwich / coffee areas, places to sit and soak up what little sun we have, and general chill out areas. The attractions the Cinema will bring in will also have a great changing effect on both the community and the face of Margate. My comment was that if you visit any successful heritage attraction, i.e. a heritage living museum such as the Black Country Museum by me or the Kent and East Sussex Railway not far from Dreamland, when you step through the gates you step back into that period of time and the same must be the case here. I was viewing the plans drawn up on the new Dreamland site and the whole ultra modern with a bit of a nostalgic twist is just so tacky and does not fool people. Plus it’s been done too many times. As I pointed out Blackpool has already tried it and failed. The old idea of making tables and chairs look like cars and waltzer carriages has been done too many times.

I’m saying to create that feeling of being involved, of being in the era that the rides are based on, then everything must be the same. People must be made to feel they have stepped back in time and are not just being milked for their money. (Which might I add is the aim of every profit making business before anyone comments. You get as much for your product as you can but not too much that they don’t come back). That’s why I think a gate price is unavoidable.

Your comment about the ‘Cops and Dames’ films is also totally true and brings me back to my original post again that referred to the Dreamland site. I am now fully aware Dreamland only has 50% of the original site to fill. So all the rides they already have, plus what they will add, plus the concessions, plus the green areas and the site full and ready to burst.

Fantastic!

Now what happens two or three years down the line and all my dreams have come true. Dreamland is a success!

Your film festival went from five to seven to ten days, where does Dreamland go?

Does it take out some of the rides that have already made it so attractive to put new ones in that are untried?

You can’t move Dreamland to a bigger site it’s already exactly where it should be!

The whole site must be preserved for a period of time to see if success comes its way.

Hell why not be a little bit of an entrepreneur and make some more money by using part of the unused area out side the 50% allocation for parking. Two or Three pounds a day will rake in a tidy sum over a season.

Vince, Charlie and Sam above suggest three words.

Adventure Island Southend.

Totally agree although filled with much more modern attractive rides, with the odd heritage one for seaside nostalgia.

I therefore pose my question.

Q. What did Adventure Island do when it was successful?

A. Expand!

Ridiculing and brow beating me just because I pose questions, comments or views that do not fit with the fanatical is unfair. I went to Dreamland as a small child, right through to a teenager before holidays to Spain rather than Margate became the trend, and have since been back as an adult. Dreamland sits in my memory as the finest Theme Park I have been too in this country, and I have been to all the major ones. It held and still does hold inside me that magic that just seemed to pour out of it in the 80’s and 90’s.

I now have a son of my own and want to take him to see what I did. I know it won’t be the same without the Big Wheel and the Looping Star, but it should hark back to its first round of glory years before the modern rides picked it up and dragged it into a new generation.

I don’t want to see Dreamland fail, I’m not negative about it, it just all seems too much of a miss match and far too limited. Maybe I’m not a ‘back patter’ saying well done to this and well done to that. I’m just objective and surely you need to look at limitations and what could go wrong so there is some idea if it does. I’m really not trying to down play or put the skids under the project like some. I want to see it work.

Therefore, I make this as my final point in this post.

They are trying to put a national / world (As don’t forget this is the only park of its type) attraction on to a site what in comparison to the original Dreamland and other national attractions that exist at present is postage stamp size. I’m sure the Cinema will boom in its new role but I’m just not so sure about the rest.

So the name of Dreamland thankfully and wonderfully lives on in reality as well as memory.

But for how long?

I really do hope for ever.


LET’S RIDE THE RAILS!

We're simply discussing the possibilities for and against, afterall thats what makes for interesting reading on this forum.
I'm certainly not against the proposals at all and very much doubt the majority posting on this forum lacks knowledge on this subject.
Im certain most people will be willing to lend a hand if they can when the time comes.
I know i will be

Paint for victory

I love a good debate, I have a few points and I'll keep it brief:

1) Whether or not Dreamland can make a profit, it is my strong feeling that many of the rides saved should continue to operate as the history of seaside amusement parks is such an important (and far too often overlooked) part of our British cultural heritage.

2) I think that in the eyes of the public there is a world of difference between a modern park operating old rides (which many people may consider to be clapped out or in need of replacement), and a heritage park operating old rides (which they will consider to be nostalgic). It will be like the difference between the old trams at Blackpool and those at Crich Tramway Museum (which is an astounding success story).
I know we all love the old rides at modern parks, and probably the old trams at Blackpool too, but the public do not see them as we do. At Dreamland they will.

Hi.
I'm sorry if I seemed snarky about it, but the whole question seemed a little juvenile in a poorly-thought-out sort of way.
I'm really sorry about that.
Whatever browser you're using, ditch it. Mozilla's Firefox has on the fly spell-check.

Short answer: Do you think the campaign members would be putting all this effort in if they thought it was going to fail?
Did you seriously expect this answer to your question? "Oh we think Dreamland doesn't have a chance, but thought we'd waste a lot of our time giving it a go anyway."

Again, I'm sorry, but the "Bobs" who stop by put me on the defensive of something I care pretty deeply about. We really don't need the good people second guessing it at this point.

Again, I urge that if you're feeling more can be done, contact someone and get involved.

Film fests bring people in. Dreamland doesn't go anywhere, it benefits from the film attendance in the Cinema, and concessions and ride ticket sales from people who come early or stay late. The park benefits from the Cinema.

As for Dreamland rivaling the big parks, it won't. It's apples and oranges.
it doesn't have to. What it offers will be unique.
It's the other events, the films, the musical acts, the car shows, the antique fairs, etc. that will keep it fresh and keep a variety of people coming.

It's going to take a creative event planner to make this happen.
See below.

As for the longevity, Dreamland rested on it's laurels of being an amusement park from day one. The new status of being a heritage park will always give it an air of attraction that will keep people coming. Unique events will get more people coming.

Have a model railroad swap meet. A VW show. An antique show and sale; the summertime possibilities are endless, and all of these things draw huge crowds.
These things can happen indoors in off season months, too.

Jim Douglas Jr. wrote:
Quite honestly, if you put in as much effort volunteering for the campaign as you did considering how it can all fail, your energies would be better spent. As it is, I find it hard to take seriously the thoughts of anyone with such poor spelling and grammar. With so little effort put into those thoughts, they really don't carry much weight. Isn't it a little early and counterproductive to predict the demise of Dreamland just yet?
Maybe you could grab a paintbrush or a broom when the time comes and fell like you have a stake in the place.

You know what topic title I'd like to see?

"How can I help right now?"

Well, how can you stop people from speculating?
I've been a long supporter of the dreamland campaign (Well, only a few years, But that was when i first stumbled across the website) and don't get me wrong, I believe it can happen.

It's just the fact of whether people will actually come. I try to avoid going to Margate whenever i can, it's not a nice place to go.

You can't stop people from over thinking. You can't just look at the positives all the time, you need to balance the positives out, while keeping a level head incase this scheme does fall through.

Contact Nick or Sarah.

Have any hobbies or interests? Have an event at Dreamland.

All of the things I mentioned above have the potential to draw thousands of people in. Yes, thousands.

Call Antiques Roadshow and have them do an episode from Dreamland. Iss that still in production? That attracts thousands of people. Have it in conjunction with an antique show/sale and you have a weekend that brought in 20,000 people.

Speculation is pointless. At this point it does literally no good whatsoever, and less so to speculate on failure.

Action is not pointless. Action sees results. Positive or negative, action will yield some result.

THE ORIGINAL LOOPING STAR wrote:Hi Kyle

In reply to your comments of

‘have I bothered to read the rest of the site’?

Yes I have!

Don’t get me wrong and as I commented I want to see Dreamland survive, but my question still stands.

Will it?

A cheap jibe at spelling and grammar is also not really the answer, and maybe a reaction I no doubt expected from someone on the site when I read the post back, but judging by your previous intelligent and informative quotes maybe it was not you I expected it from.

(P.S. I was trying to type on my lap in a room full of people yesterday. I’m at my desk tonight so should hopefully be a bit better).

Jumping up and down and suggesting I get a broom or paint brush in my hand is also just as non productive. Plus if you are where your location suggests and I have no reason to doubt you are, then its more than likely just as impractical for me who is over 200 miles away to ‘get a paint brush or broom’ as it is yourself. Although, I appreciate easier for me to get there.

I am fully aware that the powers that be are working hard to ensure every aspect of Dreamland is spot on and I referred to Nick and his teams efforts in my original post.

I am also fully with you on the admission suggestion, but such is he trend in this country today that I fear a gate fee will be charged as it is on many other attractions. The only reason I suggest this is because on reading ‘epiclyawesome’s comment above you only have a list of rides so far and the younger generation that Amusement parks rely on to ride the attractions time and time again are already negative so they won’t want them going in a spending a few quid and deciding its not for them. The locals will not keep this park going it needs long distance tourists to keep it going and also to rebuild Margate.

There is such an opportunity here to effectively turn Margate in to the Blackpool of the south, a serious rival to Brighton, but only Dreamland can do it. Margate must have a Theme Park to pull the crowds in. A local community that already spends majority of its money in its local area has already proved its not enough to support and rebuild the area, hence all the boarded up shops and units. It needs the long distance tourists who don’t live by the sea, want ‘kiss me quick’ hats, rock, candy floss and all the other things that come with it. Margate and Dreamland will never be anything else than these things it’s a true English seaside resort, and suggests it in every photo you look at of the good times. Therefore it needs the element that separates the good from the great a first class Amusement / Theme Park.

I can’t argue with any of the comments you make re sandwich / coffee areas, places to sit and soak up what little sun we have, and general chill out areas. The attractions the Cinema will bring in will also have a great changing effect on both the community and the face of Margate. My comment was that if you visit any successful heritage attraction, i.e. a heritage living museum such as the Black Country Museum by me or the Kent and East Sussex Railway not far from Dreamland, when you step through the gates you step back into that period of time and the same must be the case here. I was viewing the plans drawn up on the new Dreamland site and the whole ultra modern with a bit of a nostalgic twist is just so tacky and does not fool people. Plus it’s been done too many times. As I pointed out Blackpool has already tried it and failed. The old idea of making tables and chairs look like cars and waltzer carriages has been done too many times.

I’m saying to create that feeling of being involved, of being in the era that the rides are based on, then everything must be the same. People must be made to feel they have stepped back in time and are not just being milked for their money. (Which might I add is the aim of every profit making business before anyone comments. You get as much for your product as you can but not too much that they don’t come back). That’s why I think a gate price is unavoidable.

Your comment about the ‘Cops and Dames’ films is also totally true and brings me back to my original post again that referred to the Dreamland site. I am now fully aware Dreamland only has 50% of the original site to fill. So all the rides they already have, plus what they will add, plus the concessions, plus the green areas and the site full and ready to burst.

Fantastic!

Now what happens two or three years down the line and all my dreams have come true. Dreamland is a success!

Your film festival went from five to seven to ten days, where does Dreamland go?

Does it take out some of the rides that have already made it so attractive to put new ones in that are untried?

You can’t move Dreamland to a bigger site it’s already exactly where it should be!

The whole site must be preserved for a period of time to see if success comes its way.

Hell why not be a little bit of an entrepreneur and make some more money by using part of the unused area out side the 50% allocation for parking. Two or Three pounds a day will rake in a tidy sum over a season.

Vince, Charlie and Sam above suggest three words.

Adventure Island Southend.

Totally agree although filled with much more modern attractive rides, with the odd heritage one for seaside nostalgia.

I therefore pose my question.

Q. What did Adventure Island do when it was successful?

A. Expand!

Ridiculing and brow beating me just because I pose questions, comments or views that do not fit with the fanatical is unfair. I went to Dreamland as a small child, right through to a teenager before holidays to Spain rather than Margate became the trend, and have since been back as an adult. Dreamland sits in my memory as the finest Theme Park I have been too in this country, and I have been to all the major ones. It held and still does hold inside me that magic that just seemed to pour out of it in the 80’s and 90’s.

I now have a son of my own and want to take him to see what I did. I know it won’t be the same without the Big Wheel and the Looping Star, but it should hark back to its first round of glory years before the modern rides picked it up and dragged it into a new generation.

I don’t want to see Dreamland fail, I’m not negative about it, it just all seems too much of a miss match and far too limited. Maybe I’m not a ‘back patter’ saying well done to this and well done to that. I’m just objective and surely you need to look at limitations and what could go wrong so there is some idea if it does. I’m really not trying to down play or put the skids under the project like some. I want to see it work.

Therefore, I make this as my final point in this post.

They are trying to put a national / world (As don’t forget this is the only park of its type) attraction on to a site what in comparison to the original Dreamland and other national attractions that exist at present is postage stamp size. I’m sure the Cinema will boom in its new role but I’m just not so sure about the rest.

So the name of Dreamland thankfully and wonderfully lives on in reality as well as memory.

But for how long?

I really do hope for ever.


LET’S RIDE THE RAILS!

I have to agree with you. I cannot see is even breaking even. Bemboms gave it a good go and could not succeed.

Seaside resorts are not the draw they once were and Margate is not the most scenic location

The succesfull Theme Parks are well located to have a very large catchment area and are large & can expand and constantly upgrade rides


You cannot directly compare Margate with Adventure Island. Southend is a dormitory town of London and it has quite a large catchment area for a seaside location