CPO Approved

The Save Dreamland Campaign was launched by Joyland Books in January 2003 and is now supported by several thousand people. This is the place to discuss all aspects of saving Margate's famous amusement park and its iconic , Grade II listed Scenic Railway, Britain's oldest roller coaster.

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Re: CPO Approved

Postby Peet » 21 Aug 2012, 10:26

They already appealed the CPO, that's what brought on the whole public enquiry. Surely they don't have the right to appeal again??
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Re: CPO Approved

Postby dreamland » 21 Aug 2012, 10:34

appeal ? appeal against what exactly ? dreamland has been saved and now they want to appeal ? it dont make any sence to me !
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Re: CPO Approved

Postby porf » 21 Aug 2012, 10:45

Ok - My understanding is:

Both sides got to provide input earlier this year to the Inspector.

That evidence formed the basis of a report by the Inspector which was then sent to the Secretary of State for Communities and Local Government to make the actual decision based on this report. It's this decision we'd been waiting a while for.

Now the Secretary of State for Communities and Local Government has made a decision to allow TDC to proceed with the CPO there is a 6 week period in which that decision can be appealed.

So that's the appeal MTCRC can make. I believe it's a one shot thing so in 6 weeks time we should have a definitive decision.
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Re: CPO Approved

Postby vann98 » 21 Aug 2012, 10:49

That is what I find ridiculously irritating. The council issued a CPO, the owners appealed (fair enough), the CPO went to public inquiry as a result, they lost, now they are considering appealing again? What? :s It just seems bizarre to me and in my opinion, this just delays things further.
They really are digging themselves into a deep hole and I recon they are going to find it hard to get out if the council do purchase the site.
As for the name, they should have just kept with MTCRC or at least one not so specific to a site that they could potentially have to sell.

If anyone wanted to know the source: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-kent-19317886
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Re: CPO Approved

Postby EAS » 21 Aug 2012, 11:54

Grounds for appeal VERY limited, would have to be some legal challenge (that decision was somehow not lawfully reached) and I think it's now just face saving bluster.
If they want to waste money, well... it is their right.
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Re: CPO Approved

Postby smilerbaker » 21 Aug 2012, 12:52

does anyone know how much the council is going to have to pay for the site? I *really* hope its no where near what godden wanted for it
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Re: CPO Approved

Postby Gary » 21 Aug 2012, 21:09

From The Architects Journal comes this chorus of disapproval from a Mr Assael of Assael Architecture:

Assael: council's Margate Dreamland plans are doomed to fail


John Assael has hit out at ruling paving the way for Margate’s abandoned Dreamland site to be turned into a heritage theme park


On Friday (17 August) Thanet District Council won approval from the Secretary of State for the compulsory purchase of disused seafront plot - a move which will see it turned into a £10 million Coney Island-esque attraction with historical rides and sideshows.


However Assael of Assael Architecture which earlier this year unveiled its own home-led vision for future of the former fun park on behalf of the site’s origial owners the Margate Town Centre Regeneration Company (MTCRC) was dismayed by the outcome of the public inquiry.

Assael said: ‘It is a very disappointing result for the people of Margate. This important site - and the cinema - can offer a real regeneration opportunity for the town. Instead the council’s proposals for a heritage amusement park will have very limited appeal.

‘My view is that long-term it is going to fail’.

Assael’s concept £20 million scheme for MTCRC included 474 homes built around ‘a vibrant cultural and amusement hub’ made up of the existing listed structures, many of which date back to 1920.

The practice was the fifth to be appointed on the project - previous firms to have worked on regeneration plans include Levitt Bernstein (AJ 17.11.09) - and the only one to propose protecting and reusing the Grade-II* listed cinema and scenic railway as part of a low-density housing scheme.


Assael added: ‘The [authority’s] proposals have no budget or ideas for the repair of one of the most important Grade II* cinema in the country. This is shocking.’


http://www.architectsjournal.co.uk/news/daily-news/assael-councils-margate-dreamland-plans-are-doomed-to-fail/8634672.article?blocktitle=Daily-news&contentID=160
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Re: CPO Approved

Postby Jim Douglas Jr. » 21 Aug 2012, 21:45

Wow, take a week off and look what happens.
This is most excellent news, but of course, there's at least talk of more red tape.

Hopefully the council grows a set and walks in and makes it happen.

The government needs to flex it's muscle on this. and tell them "No appeal. You're done here. Be gone before someone drops a house on you."
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Re: CPO Approved

Postby Jim Douglas Jr. » 21 Aug 2012, 22:00

...and oh, yes, what about dear old, fat Bob.
I wonder if people like him my finally realize they can talk smack until they're blue in the face, but it doesn't make what they say any more true.
It'll be fun to watch him come here and act like an idiot as Dreamland prepares to reopen.

I have my miles saved and will see you all in 2014.

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Re: CPO Approved

Postby woody » 22 Aug 2012, 07:50

porf wrote:Ok - My understanding is:

Both sides got to provide input earlier this year to the Inspector.

That evidence formed the basis of a report by the Inspector which was then sent to the Secretary of State for Communities and Local Government to make the actual decision based on this report. It's this decision we'd been waiting a while for.

Now the Secretary of State for Communities and Local Government has made a decision to allow TDC to proceed with the CPO there is a 6 week period in which that decision can be appealed.

So that's the appeal MTCRC can make. I believe it's a one shot thing so in 6 weeks time we should have a definitive decision.



if they do appeal to the courts it could take ages to get listed. the only thing that anybody will know in 6 week is if they have appealed or not

if not the cpo can go ahead, having appealed a planning decision myself in the past it took 16 months for the court process
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Re: CPO Approved

Postby vann98 » 22 Aug 2012, 11:26

I guess we just have to hope that they don't delay the project further and just let the council get on with it. Any more legal battles is surely pointless on both halves, and just delaying the inevitable?

Also, I am sure there is a very justified reason behind it, but I personally can't understand why we have to wait until the council owns the site for someone to rebuild the Railway. It is a Grade II* listed asset, and both the Trust and MCTRC vision will see it rebuilt anyway, so I don't quite get why it can't just be restored whenever.
For the cinema, it makes sense as there is no plans set in stone for what the Cinema will become, however surely the Scenic can just be rebuilt exactly as it was before the fire. Why delay what is going to be identical in both schemes? Or do we just not have a contractor for it yet?
Again maybe I am missing something, but I just thought it was a bit strange.
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Re: CPO Approved

Postby smilerbaker » 22 Aug 2012, 14:25

money!

MCTRC never had any intention of rebuilding it (otherwise they wouldn't have tried to burn it down) it would suit them if it just rotted away.

The council aren't going to spend anything on it until they own it, and english heritage would be very foolish indeed to give MCTRC any money.

What I really don't understand is the railway is listed, and it burnt down during MCTRC ownership, why the hell aren't they being legally made to restore it???
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Re: CPO Approved

Postby SuburbanHomeboy » 22 Aug 2012, 14:56

I agree with Smiler that the scenic was damaged on their watch, so they should be the ones to pay for the restoration - I'm not sure I'd want them carrying out the actual restoration work, though.

As for the appeal, I get the feeling that I'd make a killing if I put on a bet that they'll wait until 6 weeks and 6 days before lodging an appeal - just to hold up the inevitable for as long as possible.

Roll on the final enforcement of the CPO!
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Re: CPO Approved

Postby EAS » 23 Aug 2012, 09:28

Here's the full article in the Architects' Journal, as mentioned above. It's Paywalled, and has photos etc, but here's the text.



Assael: council's Margate Dreamland plans are doomed to fail

John Assael has hit out at a ruling which paves the way for Margate’s abandoned Dreamland site to be turned into a heritage theme park


On Friday (17 August) Thanet District Council won approval from the Secretary of State for the compulsory purchase of disused seafront plot - a move which will see it turned into a £10 million Coney Island-esque attraction with historical rides and sideshows.

However Assael of Assael Architecture, which earlier this year unveiled its own home-led vision for future of the former fun park on behalf of the site’s original owners the Margate Town Centre Regeneration Company (MTCRC), was dismayed by the outcome of the public inquiry.

Assael said: ‘It is a very disappointing result for the people of Margate. This important site - and the cinema - can offer a real regeneration opportunity for the town. Instead the council’s proposals for a heritage amusement park will have very limited appeal.

‘My view is that long-term it is going to fail’.

Assael’s concept £20 million scheme for MTCRC included 474 homes built around ‘a vibrant cultural and amusement hub’ made up of the existing listed structures, many of which date back to 1920.

The practice was the fifth to be appointed on the project - previous firms to have worked on regeneration plans include Levitt Bernstein (AJ 17.11.09) - and the only one to propose protecting and reusing the Grade-II* listed cinema and scenic railway as part of a low-density housing scheme.


Assael added: ‘The [authority’s] proposals have no budget or ideas for the repair of one of the most important Grade II* cinema in the country. This is shocking.’

Following the decision the council will have to secure the title to the land before access to the site can be granted and work can begin.

Leader of Thanet District Council, councillor Clive Hart, said: ’This is a key step to unlocking the regeneration of the Dreamland site and means we can start to move in the right direction, in partnership with The Dreamland Trust, to progress the future of the site which has been vacant for a significant amount of time.

‘Dreamland is such an important asset for Thanet, and for thousands outside of the area, so we’ve always been clear that doing nothing is simply not acceptable.

Hart added: ‘It’s taken a lot of hard work and determination to get to this point, with the council spending more than £1 million on carrying out urgent repairs to the neglected heritage assets.

‘I’m thrilled that the Secretary of State is confident in our plans to help secure the regeneration of Dreamland, and today’s announcement moves us closer to delivering this greatly anticipated amusement park.”

Chair of The Dreamland Trust, Nick Laister, said: ‘[We are] delighted that the Secretary of State has backed our plans to reopen Dreamland as a major seaside visitor attraction of regional and national significance. We were confident that our plans would be found to be robust, deliverable and in the public interest.

‘The Trust was very pleased to support the council in its efforts to secure the site to enable us to implement our vision, which has been shown time and time again to be the development that the people of Thanet most want to see happen.’

He added: ‘The residents and businesses of Thanet, and its many existing and future visitors, have waited far too long for work on this project to start. With our funding in place and our plans drawn up, today’s news is hopefully the final major hurdle that we will have to cross.

‘The Dreamland Trust is ready to make a start on site and we hope to have Stage One of the project fully open by Easter 2014.’

Project information

The Dreamland Trust is working in partnership with Thanet District Council (TDC) to create the world’s first amusement park of thrilling historic rides, classic side shows, vintage cafés, restaurants and gardens with special events and festivals and to celebrate this important part of our popular and youth culture heritage.

The Dreamland Trust emerged from the Save Dreamland Campaign to rescue the park and its heritage assets including:

The 1920 Scenic Railway - the UK’s oldest roller coaster and a Grade II* listed structure.
The 1935 2,200 seat Grade II* listed cinema building - a super-cinema forerunner.
Lord George Sanger’s Grade II-listed menagerie cages dating back to the 1800s - believed to be the last remaining type of their kind.
Dreamland’s description is an ‘amusement park of thrilling historic rides’ – it is not a fairground, fun fair, fun park, theme park or heritage park.

The Dreamland Margate project has grown out of a vigorous and widely supported community campaign to save the site from redevelopment into housing and retail units.

The Dreamland Margate project is funded by the Heritage Lottery Fund, the Department of Culture, Media and Sport’s Sea Change programme and TDC.

TDC served a compulsory purchase order on the Dreamland site owners on 3 June 2011, which went to Public Inquiry in January 2012.


http://www.architectsjournal.co.uk/assa ... ontentID=3

You know, I thought there WERE plans in place for the II* cinema... and surely the council has already spent a considerable sum on essential repairs to the cinema, neglected by its owners?


There's one reader comment :

Truth of the matter is the residents of Thanet don't want 474 new homes built on a plot of land free for leisure activity, and I doubt many people want to live in a flat next to a rollercoaster!
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Re: CPO Approved

Postby ceely shaw » 25 Aug 2012, 22:20

Hello Dreamland fans,

Lets not worry too much about the Council appealling. Lets think about the scenic railway, Margates finest and probably the best reason to visit Margate, I havent visited since the poor girl burnt down. Dreamland will be so good for Margate. The scenic railway one of the oldest rollercoasters in the world great as it is, may not be the best ride in the park, look out for the Rhyl water chute, the last remaining one of its kind in the world, the whip kindly donated by the Pleasure Beach, again only one of its kind in the UK and finaly the Morecomb Wild Mouse which will be my favorite ride in the park. Roll on 2014!
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