Is It The End for Dreamland. Is the Dream Over?

The Save Dreamland Campaign was launched by Joyland Books in January 2003 and is now supported by several thousand people. This is the place to discuss all aspects of saving Margate's famous amusement park and its iconic , Grade II listed Scenic Railway, Britain's oldest roller coaster.

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Re: Is It The End for Dreamland. Is the Dream Over?

Postby kevin » 02 Aug 2016, 11:30

That about sums it up
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Re: Is It The End for Dreamland. Is the Dream Over?

Postby Bob » 02 Aug 2016, 12:11

smilerbaker wrote:why hasn't the save dreamland site been updated? is the campaign getting back up and running behind the scenes? just what is the legal situation with the lease?? WHY THE HELL DO RESIDENTS OF THANET PUT UP WITH THIS !*@%?????? its YOUR council tax these people are divvying up amongst themselves, how has the debt doubled in the past few months??

you guys need to be getting angry, really really angry, you've all been royally shafted, time to take off those rose tinted spectacles, so I'll say it, dreamland is a dump! the rides are rubbish, there isn't enough of them by a long shot, any half decent traveling fair has more and of better quality, this is not poor / mismanagement this has been done on purpose, just say what you know out loud and hear how ridiculous it sounds

the contract was given to a company with ZERO experience
the company is owned by a guy who specializes in hedge funds and property development
they hire CEO who had a string of failures behind her
the star ride wasn't ready on time
they charged just to get in
somehow they manage to secure a debt on the lease after the cva???
the rides have not been maintained
etc etc

until you guys open your eyes to whats going on there is no hope, no more 'yes, but' , they have burned through 14m IN A YEAR and from what I can see have nothing at all to show for it, they could almost have bought a 'the smiler' coaster for that.


As I understand it the £600,00 loan was secured against the lease so if as seems likely Dreamland defaults the lease goes to the Cayman Island Company a nice little asset for them. I am sure you can fill the Dreamland site with a lot of housing
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Re: Is It The End for Dreamland. Is the Dream Over?

Postby smilerbaker » 02 Aug 2016, 13:47

Bob wrote:As I understand it the £600,00 loan was secured against the lease so if as seems likely Dreamland defaults the lease goes to the Cayman Island Company a nice little asset for them. I am sure you can fill the Dreamland site with a lot of housing


it does look like thats the plan, but legally how can you get more debt and secure it against an asset while you're in a CVA? if I where a creditor I think I'd be paying a visit to sands guest house
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Re: Is It The End for Dreamland. Is the Dream Over?

Postby Bob » 03 Aug 2016, 09:45

The mystery of the Dreamland Debt

The figures I have for Dreamland was that at the time it went into the CVA it had £3M of debt. When it left the CVA and went into administration it had aquired another £2M in debvt. During the administration it aquired a loan of £600,000 from this Caymen Island Company so the total comes to £5.6M. WE are now being told that Dreamland now owe over £14M so where has this almost £9M additional debt suddenly come from. It could not possibly have aquired anoth £9M of debt in the 3 months it has been in administration
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Re: Is It The End for Dreamland. Is the Dream Over?

Postby Peet » 04 Aug 2016, 13:17

Dreamland will remain open!

The administrators have said this about keeping the park open:
By doing so we are able to implement a plan to turnaround the business through investment in the site, enhancing the customer experience and developing an exciting programme of future events

It is our aim to maximise the return for creditors, and in our experience, these enhancements and investment will improve the prospects for a successful outcome for the business.


This sounds like a really positive outcome from the meeting and it seems the administrators believe Dreamland can and will be a viable business.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-kent-36976634
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Re: Is It The End for Dreamland. Is the Dream Over?

Postby aweber1us » 04 Aug 2016, 16:13

I'm really pleased for Dreamland and the many people that work there. I know some people out there get such a buzz out of Dreamland failing without a second thought how it affects its employees and Margate.It's time you excepted that you lost Bob and to keep poking your head up just shows people on this site just what you are.
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Re: Is It The End for Dreamland. Is the Dream Over?

Postby Bob » 04 Aug 2016, 17:06

aweber1us wrote:I'm really pleased for Dreamland and the many people that work there. I know some people out there get such a buzz out of Dreamland failing without a second thought how it affects its employees and Margate.It's time you excepted that you lost Bob and to keep poking your head up just shows people on this site just what you are.



Dreamland is a basket case. It was alys going to remain open until the end of the School holidays as that about the only period it makes money. THe administators do not inject money into the business they just work with the money there is. Thats likely to run out by the year end
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Re: Is It The End for Dreamland. Is the Dream Over?

Postby smilerbaker » 05 Aug 2016, 07:18

aweber1us wrote:I'm really pleased for Dreamland and the many people that work there. I know some people out there get such a buzz out of Dreamland failing without a second thought how it affects its employees and Margate.It's time you excepted that you lost Bob and to keep poking your head up just shows people on this site just what you are.



Errrmmm what was I saying about rose tinted glasses??? Dreamland HAS failed, its gone bust, it owes millions it can't pay, the lease owners have no intention of doing what it takes to make it anywhere near a success, they have screwed a lot of companies out of a lot of money, no one in there right minds will have anything to do with them or there phoenix company now.
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Re: Is It The End for Dreamland. Is the Dream Over?

Postby davidjohn » 05 Aug 2016, 10:23

The School Summer holidays will end in a few weeks, will the Halloween themed Screamland go ahead ? I was informed by a Businessman that trades on the seafront of a major company interested in the site but with the outcome of Thursdays meeting, that will not happen. Instead we will see Dreamland make some profit during the School holidays. If the park is sold off, will the Scenic Railway still stand on site, as the ride is Grade 11 listed. Without Dreamland, Margate will suffer a loss. The out of town shopping centre has effected the towns high street with many shops closed down, a similar patten seen up and down the country. What will become of Dreamland cinema ? Hopefully not a pub chain. I worked at the famous 2200 seater State Grays, A Grade 11* listed building. It has stood empty for twenty odd years. The former cinema will soon open as a Wetherspoons venue.
Last edited by davidjohn on 06 Aug 2016, 04:07, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Is It The End for Dreamland. Is the Dream Over?

Postby kevin » 05 Aug 2016, 10:26

A slightly different interpretation of the story here:-

http://www.kentonline.co.uk/thanet/news ... de-100160/

"Dreamland is to continue to trade - at least for the next few months.

A creditors' meeting this morning heard the Margate attraction - which owes creditors £2.9m - will stay open over the summer".
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Re: Is It The End for Dreamland. Is the Dream Over?

Postby Bob » 05 Aug 2016, 12:06

Interestingly the Administrators are deny that there is a charge on the Dreamland Lease when clearly there is. Why they are denying it I have not a clue particularly when the information is in the public domain
https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/comp ... mwmYsbe9UU

The full administrators report Confirm that Dreamland is not a viable going concern. The reports states that during the administration that Dreamland had not been making a profit. The plan though is to continue to trade through the school holiday period when #dreamland is expected to make a profit. It make continue to trade beyond then depending on what booking are like for some major event in the Autumn

It appears as well that Dreamland own a Pub & a Club. An interesting item in the report is one of possible fraud by the Directors and also transaction at an undervalue. The full report can be found here

https://s3-eu-west-1.amazonaws.com/docu ... 6byRvQU%3D
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Re: Is It The End for Dreamland. Is the Dream Over?

Postby smilerbaker » 05 Aug 2016, 14:47

link doesn't work
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Re: Is It The End for Dreamland. Is the Dream Over?

Postby smilerbaker » 05 Aug 2016, 14:51

davidjohn wrote: If the park is sold off, will the Scenic Railway still stand on site, as the ride is Grade 11 listed.


Yes, sands don't own the park or the ride, only the lease. The scenic is protected by law (fires aside) so whatever happens it has to remain.

of course there is nothing to stop the lease holders totally neglecting the scenic until it falls down again, godden styleeeee
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Re: Is It The End for Dreamland. Is the Dream Over?

Postby Vince, Charlie and Sam » 05 Aug 2016, 19:10

Your glee is becoming a bit tiresome now Bob.

Or should I say Barry? :wink:
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Re: Is It The End for Dreamland. Is the Dream Over?

Postby Nick » 05 Aug 2016, 22:01

All I can say at the moment is that the dream is far from over. There are a number of possibilities for the future of the park. I can't really say any more than that at this stage. But talk of Dreamland's demise are very much exaggerated.

I am pleased that the free-entry operating model that formed the basis of the Dreamland Trust's business plan is now being used. This was put together with the help of other seaside amusement park operators, and was scrutinised at a public inquiry, and it formed the basis of the award of grants to the project. There would need to be a number of other changes if the park was to fully embrace our model, and maybe it will not be possible with the current operator given the level of debt.

But regardless of that, Dreamland still very much has a future. There is life in the old girl yet and I am still very much taking a close interest..

And the Save Dreamland Campaign is still here, waiting in the wings, just in case it is ever needed again.
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