Nick laisters business plan

The Save Dreamland Campaign was launched by Joyland Books in January 2003 and is now supported by several thousand people. This is the place to discuss all aspects of saving Margate's famous amusement park and its iconic , Grade II listed Scenic Railway, Britain's oldest roller coaster.

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Nick laisters business plan

Postby mtcrc » 23 Oct 2016, 08:04

For all of the people who attended the meeting of save dreamland / dreamland trust, Nick Laister made it clear he now wanted to implement his business plan.

Two things - why did the Trust not do this two years ago. Plus when they were going to, they employed Eddie Kemsley who is the same person who has had the blame for poorly executing the current park.

But here is the question, is everyone on this forum willing to support Nick Laister and the DT implement their plan?

And who is going to be responsible on a day to day basis for this Park? As I see it all DT trustees have other jobs. Eddie K is now employed elsewhere (God help them).
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Re: Nick laisters business plan

Postby Bob » 23 Oct 2016, 09:23

It is in the hands of the administrator's they will almost certainly liquidate Sands in the next 6 months or so. They will have no choice as the money will run out. The administrators will then look for offers for the assets of the company which don't amount to much. Clearly in its current form Dreamland is a basket case. In 2 years it has run up losses of almost £14M and those losses are still increasing

Nick can have a business plan. His original one for Dreamland has not worked well but even ignoring that he will need to rise a lot of money and I don't see anyone rushing to fund a Dreamland Mk3
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Re: Nick laisters business plan

Postby kevin » 23 Oct 2016, 12:36

It needs an experienced amusement park operator. The best option would be Philip Miller from Southend's Adventure Island. He was interested about 10 years ago but the fire starter wanted an ridiculously fraudulent price for the site, but if you look at the progress, investment and sheer visitor numbers the park enjoys I am convinced that he could make a success of Dreamland.

The problem is that Dreamland is stuck with this "Heritage Theme Park"tag, which it certainly hasn't lived up to. Unfortunately this has come about as a means to access lottery money but the rides that this plan was relying on have been stolen, abandoned or misplaced and the older rides that have been appearing at Dreamland have largely been travelling fairground rides, of the type traveled by Carters Steam Fair who, it has to be said, do it a lot better. Also, the rides that set an amusement park apart from a fairground are those permanent rides that are unique to that park, the Ghost train, the Fun House, the Rivercaves and other dark rides and without major investment these are never going to be built. The hope that recovering a few boats and a pump would turn into a resurrected River Caves was always, in my view, unrealistic at the best or naive at the worst. The same can be said of the other items of assorted scrap or memorabilia which were "acquired" with the financial and practical help of members of this forum.

You do have to ask the question, is Dreamland in breach of the conditions under which it obtained public money in the form of lottery grants to reopen as a heritage amusement park?
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Re: Nick laisters business plan

Postby davidjohn » 24 Oct 2016, 00:36

Kevin, you have knocked the nail on the head. Yes, Adventureland Southend has gone from strength to strength and that company needs to take over Dreamland before any more money is lost. Dreamland seem to be playing at this 50s Retro theme and not running it as an amusement park where rides should come first. All this retro theatre needs to stop. It stands to reason the public are not interested in this. Invest in some decent rides that will attract the visitors. I can go down the road to ride fairground flat rides, and as for The Scenic Railway,it has become a joke. The coaster could have been re built the time it's been out of action. Get someone who knows the amusement park industry and get these players out.
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Re: Nick laisters business plan

Postby Bob » 24 Oct 2016, 08:35

The Fact are that Dreamland is in administration. No one has come forward to take over the business which also means taking on the £14M of debt. The business is still making a loss and the only money it has is the £600,000 from the charge on the lease. Once that money runs out Dreamland will have to be liquidated and the assets put up for sale, It may not be what you want to here but that's the reality. Adventure Islsand could bid for all or some of the assets but I vey much doubt they will as it is simply not a viable business
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Re: Nick laisters business plan

Postby Pete McFeet » 24 Oct 2016, 10:12

Does anyone know the breakdown of Sands Heritage Ltd without guessing? Is the debt which is owned by them ALL from Dreamland, or have other parts of the business also failed, like the Sands Hotel which looks to me as though it has connections to Sands Heritage.

Its really easy to say Dreamland owes all of the money, but does it actually?

I am sure that if an operator (please Mr Miller let it be you) comes in to the administrators and only wants to run part of the business (ie Dreamland) then they would be open to that. If another party then wanted to run something else they would look at that offer.

At the end of the day, many seaside amusement parks have closed within the UK and all of them have struggled since. Do I want to visit Morecambe, to spend money in the local economy, to stay overnight? Without the amusement park, then no I don't.

Dreamland is important to Margate, people should not forget that fact. I live in Nottingham and would have no reason to visit the town again if Dreamland wasn't there.
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Re: Nick laisters business plan

Postby Peet » 24 Oct 2016, 10:18

mtcrc wrote:For all of the people who attended the meeting of save dreamland / dreamland trust, Nick Laister made it clear he now wanted to implement his business plan.

This sounds exciting, Nick and his team have brought about changes on the dreamland site which nobody would have believed possible 8 years ago, which I believe has already brought huge benefits to Margate as well as preserving an important part of British history. I can't wait to see what's next, do you have any details?
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Re: Nick laisters business plan

Postby Pete McFeet » 24 Oct 2016, 10:52

Just realised I hadn't answered the initial question.

Yes, we should support Nick and the Dreamland Trust. However, personally I see their role as working alongside a tried and trusted operator of an amusement park or theme park, with the Dreamland Trust supporting the new operator.
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Re: Nick laisters business plan

Postby Bob » 24 Oct 2016, 14:13

Pete McFeet wrote:Does anyone know the breakdown of Sands Heritage Ltd without guessing? Is the debt which is owned by them ALL from Dreamland, or have other parts of the business also failed, like the Sands Hotel which looks to me as though it has connections to Sands Heritage.

Its really easy to say Dreamland owes all of the money, but does it actually?

I am sure that if an operator (please Mr Miller let it be you) comes in to the administrators and only wants to run part of the business (ie Dreamland) then they would be open to that. If another party then wanted to run something else they would look at that offer.

At the end of the day, many seaside amusement parks have closed within the UK and all of them have struggled since. Do I want to visit Morecambe, to spend money in the local economy, to stay overnight? Without the amusement park, then no I don't.

Dreamland is important to Margate, people should not forget that fact. I live in Nottingham and would have no reason to visit the town again if Dreamland wasn't there.



The Debt is all owed by Sands Heritage , trading as Dreamland. There is a Sands Hotel Margate but that is a totally separate Company. That may be in trouble as well as it has not filed its account yet but they are only a month late at the present time. Dreamland does own a pub and a few other odds an ends but they have no great value
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Re: Nick laisters business plan

Postby Pete McFeet » 24 Oct 2016, 14:53

Well Sands Hotel have people also were involved in Sands Heritage.

But just one thing and I may have missed this, but who are Arrowgrass? Approximately £2.75m pounds are owed to this company by Sands Heritage, after them putting in £4.2m. Looking at their site they are a high risk investment company, which have links to Sands Heritage. Conflict of interest???

Is this another company looking to get a hold of the lease which has links to Sands Heritage?
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Re: Nick laisters business plan

Postby Bob » 24 Oct 2016, 21:32

Pete McFeet wrote:Well Sands Hotel have people also were involved in Sands Heritage.

But just one thing and I may have missed this, but who are Arrowgrass? Approximately £2.75m pounds are owed to this company by Sands Heritage, after them putting in £4.2m. Looking at their site they are a high risk investment company, which have links to Sands Heritage. Conflict of interest???

Is this another company looking to get a hold of the lease which has links to Sands Heritage?



Yes I think at least some of the directors are common by they are two separate legal entities

Arrowgrass is an Offshore company from memory located in the Cayman Islands. There appear to be links to some of the Sands Directors. I think Ian Driver has done some digging on this and may have more info
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