Off Topic - Pleasureland Southport to close

The Save Dreamland Campaign was launched by Joyland Books in January 2003 and is now supported by several thousand people. This is the place to discuss all aspects of saving Margate's famous amusement park and its iconic , Grade II listed Scenic Railway, Britain's oldest roller coaster.

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Postby Bob » 18 Sep 2006, 16:55

furie wrote:Pleasurebeach Ltd have claimed that they're "securing the Cyclone for the winter". I'm not quite sure how removing large chunks of it is securing it (and if protesters can get onto it, it's really not THAT secure ;) )?

Rumours abound that Tussauds Group have made an offer for the site. I don't know how true this will pan out to be, but there were rumours this time last year that Tussauds had been sniffing around, looking for a "Northern Chessington". I guess this a "watch this space". No idea if it is true, or how likely it is to happen, but I doubt Amanda would want Tussauds to get their hands on the place, so it'll be in the Councils hands if they decide to take back BPB Ltd's lease and hand it over to Tussauds (if they are really interested)?

Leisure for the site could just mean a large pub and bowling alley with car parking "convenient for the town". Pretty poor really...


Highly unlikely that Tussauds would be interested. It's too small and too near to Blackpool
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Postby troy » 18 Sep 2006, 18:02

It seems the protest is now over

http://www.southportforums.com/forums/s ... d=50365169

Personally, I think the lads did a marvellous job especially to get Granada News down there.

regards
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Postby Neil » 18 Sep 2006, 18:57

Bob, I'm not going to even bother.

It's great to see protestors, as if they really are trying to get it listed then any time that can be bought is surely a good thing. Also I guess it will hopefully confirm to the Council that they are doing what the people want.

I doubt the rumour about Tuassaud's is true, as Tuassauds would surely be secretive about plans, however that doesn't necessarily mean they wouldn't buy it if given a chance (which Amanda doesn't seem keen on). I guess the important thing is to make sure that such organisations atleast get a fair chance, rather than doing a Bob and condemning it to housing.
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Postby Jim Douglas Jr. » 18 Sep 2006, 23:24

I find that message board hard to navigate, but following links, I haven't seen that any more cutting has been done to the Cyclone, so that's good.
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Postby Jim Douglas Jr. » 20 Sep 2006, 07:44

Now apparently one entire turnaround is gone. Betwen the original 2 cuts.
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Postby furie » 20 Sep 2006, 09:11

Ouch :( I can't believe they're getting away with it still :(

Anyway, I've come up with the perfect solution for the Southport site. Realistically, apart from the River Caves, Funhouse and Cyclone (if any of it remains), Southport doesn't really contain much worthwhille to keep it open now it's been/being stripped.

So, why not look at those assets (if Cyclone can be saved) and then look at what potential the site has. Now, as a pure amusement park, with low key rides, I cannot see it surviving at all (unless Tussauds come in with 40 million quid and massive regeneration of the site, which would amount to Pleasureland being as lost as it is now).

Okay, idea time (and I love my pipe-dreams, so don't flame me and tell me how impossible it is, I am aware of the difference between a dream and reality).

Why not follow the West Midlands example and create a Seaside version of the Black Country museum? Recreate a Victoriana and early 20th century, working class seaside resort and sell it as a living museum. Instead of arcades, have set pieces detailing the history of the roller coaster and amusement rides. All the ride ops and workers in period dress. all the rides must be of a certain vintage, with historic details about them in the queulines. Rebuild things like a Switchback, get the Cyclone back up and running, have gypsey palm readers, candy floss, toffee apples, fish and chips cooked in lard and given to you in newspaper.

Just everything that made the place what it was during that period.

The Black Country Museum is big, and costs £11 per adult and £9 per child etry. It's popular because a) it's fun, and b) it's educational. I know that the reality of setting somethnig like this up is not within my means, but I honestly believe that a "living museum" with classic rides could be a success. A massive advantage is that you could keep it open, on reduced cost and reduced ride capacity all season. Much as the Black Country Museum does.
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Postby Bob » 20 Sep 2006, 11:51

furie wrote:Ouch :( I can't believe they're getting away with it still :(

Anyway, I've come up with the perfect solution for the Southport site. Realistically, apart from the River Caves, Funhouse and Cyclone (if any of it remains), Southport doesn't really contain much worthwhille to keep it open now it's been/being stripped.

So, why not look at those assets (if Cyclone can be saved) and then look at what potential the site has. Now, as a pure amusement park, with low key rides, I cannot see it surviving at all (unless Tussauds come in with 40 million quid and massive regeneration of the site, which would amount to Pleasureland being as lost as it is now).

Okay, idea time (and I love my pipe-dreams, so don't flame me and tell me how impossible it is, I am aware of the difference between a dream and reality).

Why not follow the West Midlands example and create a Seaside version of the Black Country museum? Recreate a Victoriana and early 20th century, working class seaside resort and sell it as a living museum. Instead of arcades, have set pieces detailing the history of the roller coaster and amusement rides. All the ride ops and workers in period dress. all the rides must be of a certain vintage, with historic details about them in the queulines. Rebuild things like a Switchback, get the Cyclone back up and running, have gypsey palm readers, candy floss, toffee apples, fish and chips cooked in lard and given to you in newspaper.

Just everything that made the place what it was during that period.

The Black Country Museum is big, and costs £11 per adult and £9 per child etry. It's popular because a) it's fun, and b) it's educational. I know that the reality of setting somethnig like this up is not within my means, but I honestly believe that a "living museum" with classic rides could be a success. A massive advantage is that you could keep it open, on reduced cost and reduced ride capacity all season. Much as the Black Country Museum does.


Your idea has some merit. The basic problem although many here would deny it is that demand for the traditional seaside amesument park is low and is continuing to decline. What is needed is to broaden the appeal of these parks by introducing other attractions and shops
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Postby furie » 20 Sep 2006, 12:47

Bob wrote:Your idea has some merit. The basic problem although many here would deny it is that demand for the traditional seaside amesument park is low and is continuing to decline. What is needed is to broaden the appeal of these parks by introducing other attractions and shops


Well, that's a well worn argument, but I would be the first to admit that without "big hitters" like Traumatizer and Space Shot, a park like Southport could never come alive again without massive investment.

The idea of the "museum" would be to off more to the visiting public than just an amusement fair. They'd get a traditional fair with only classic rides, then the add-ons, historical pieces, touch and learn "physics", side show entertainers (rather than money grabbers) and Gypsy Lee would help to encompass all the visitors. If it was all historically accurately portrayed, then I don't see why it wouldn't be a success.

I used Black Country Museum as a prime example for one main reason. It's an area of the country that does not attract "passing trade" or "casual visitors". The people heading there, are heading specifically there. Likewise with Southport, it wouldn't require the amusement park to be popular, as it's an amusement park wrapped up in a museum environment. People would come to see it for the history, and get some rides at the same time. Rather than just going for the rides.

Unfortunately, it would still require millions in investment and I'm just a simple IT man, not Bill Gates. I do believe that investment in this kind of attraction would be a popular choice with park enthusiasts, historians, the local people and, most importantly, visitors to the site.

I was just trying to think outside the Matalan/MacDonalds/Banks's Pub carbon copy box heading that way...
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Postby troy » 20 Sep 2006, 19:34

A second demontration.

Pictures and video of the protests
http://www.southportforums.com/forums/s ... d=50365239
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Postby RowBot » 21 Sep 2006, 12:21

You know what sometimes I keep thinking it's going to come down to us all protesting outside the scenic to keep it open :P
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Postby Neil » 21 Sep 2006, 21:14

It's fantastic to see wo much action taking place. I'm unable to attend any of the demonstrations, but there seems to be stuff more remote people such as myself can do. These things seem to include:
Contacting the Council
Contacting MPs
Contacting English Heritage (who have refused to list on the basis that it is not in a very healthy condition)
Those who sponsor attractions at Blackpool Pleasurebeach
I'm not sure whether any of this will do much good, but I guess there's only one way to find out!!!
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Postby Jim Douglas Jr. » 21 Sep 2006, 23:39

I've sent like 10 e-mails to people in positions of power. I didn't waste my time with the Blackpool people. They don't care.

I can't do any more, I'm too far away.
These folks should have started a phone call blitz to these places (Council, Herritage, etc). Called every 5 minutes and tied up all their phone lines. Effectively shutting them down.

Also, shouldn't have driven by and honked. Should have driven up and stopped and blocked traffic for a few hours.
I love you guys, but you Brits are way too passive.
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Postby porterm » 22 Sep 2006, 10:01

I was up until nearly 4am this morning sending e-mails to Tessa Jowell, the Culture Secretary, and about three people at English Heritage. It is time consuming, but as with this Campaign I believe we only get one shot at trying to protect places like Pleasureland.

I am planning to visit Flamingo Land tomorrow with Coasterforce so may well attend a local demonstration scheduled outside Pleasureland with local supporters from noon this coming Sunday. (I was scheduled to go to Lightwater Valley that day but think this is much more important).

The local protester in Southport, Peter Crompton, really is a local hero in my book; he even chartered a light plane yesterday to do a flypast over the Cyclone to get pictures of what's left for English Heritage to try to get the ride spot listed. Sadly, apparently they seem to have given various lame excuses, such as the station rebuild after a fire around 1984, not being done to original standards, and the ride's current condition. This seems to lean towards it not getting any consideration for historic protection. They were also denied access to assess the Cyclone recently by the current park owners as far as I've read on Southport's forums.

If enough people bombard English Heritage, and the Culture Secretary, preferably TODAY maybe we can make some changes here with their current viewpoint. Time is certainly of the essence. If a cease order cannot be instated I think it won't be long until we see the final pieces of wood from this classic structure come down for firewood etc. (You can find all the contact details on www.southport.gb.com under forums; sorry I cannot post them here as haven't got access at work to that forum site).

Martin

PS Anyone who lives near me and would like to go can give me a shout via pm or email. I will have to leave by 5am tomorrow morning though.
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Postby Neil » 22 Sep 2006, 11:27

I think the need for speed is quite important. Clearly a lot if being lost fast, however I think we can still make a difference. Even if it's too late for the Cyclone there are other avenues we can go down. The Save Dreamland Campaign isn't being a quick process and I don't suppose saving Pleasureland would be, but if we hang on for years and don't give up I genuinely think we can do it.

Out of interest what do people make of some of the threads on the RCCGB forum?:
http://www.crazy-gangs-rollercoasters.n ... y.php?f=15
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Postby furie » 22 Sep 2006, 11:30

Okay, we have to look at the reality that everything is against The Cyclone being saved. There is far too much in the way of local government and Blackpool greediness to put a true end to it. So, I'm gonig for a different tac that can hopefully help stop the site from being utterly flattened (or make it as hard as possible for Pleasure Beach Ltd. to do things).

So I've written to EH and the ministry asking for other items at Southport, and further, Blackpool, to be checked for spotlisting. We might be able to do something before Southport is gone. Unfortunately I don't think anything else at Southport deserves listing, but it's worth a shot.

Here's the letter I've sent:
Furie's letter trying to sort something out wrote:
Dear Sirs,

I am writing to you with regards to the current demolition occurring at Southport's "Pleasureland" site. I understand that the decision to list "The Cyclone" roller coaster has been negative. While I am disappointed with this outcome, I am sure that the Ministry for Culture Media and Sport had excellent reasons for this.

The reason for writing is not to address this however, I am sure that you have already had many complaints regarding this. My concern is for the future for other rides and buildings at the Pleasureland site.

Blackpool Pleasure Beach Ltd. Has shown a clear disregard for both the heritage at the site, and a disrespect for the authority of English Heritage to come on site and inspect.

With this in mind, I would like to request that the following other attractions still left at Southport Pleasureland are also "fast Tracked" for spot listing, until a full investigation can be made.

The Fun House - This is the only remaining, traditional "House of nonsense" or Fun House left operating in the Country. The building houses many original wooden attractions moved from their original location and re-housed in the 1950's. This postcard (undated, but clearly very early), shows people enjoying the wheel before it was relocated - http://www.southportforums.com/forums/a ... 7090&stc=1 .
To lose this attraction would be an absolute travesty. It is still popular to this day and provides rides and fun that modern day "Wacky Warehouses" can only dream of.

The River Caves - Opened in 1924 when Pleasureland moved to it's current site, these are one of two remaining rides of
this type left in the UK; the other being at Blackpool Pleasure Beach. The ride building has gone through modifications over the years, but I believe the ride layout and "scenes" within the building, as well as the front, are all original.

Haunted Inn - Build in the 1930's, this was a mainstay of traditional holiday parks. Southport's has not been altered much over the years and is still in excellent condition.

These three attractions could easily be saved, and would make a wonderful centrepiece to an attraction dedicated to displaying the history of Seaside amusement parks. It is a shame that The Cyclone could not also be present. I would be grateful if you could look into the possibility of spot-listing these attractions until a more detailed investigation can be made. As we have seen with the demolition of The Cyclone, time is of the essence where Pleasureland is concerned.

As an addition to looking at saving Southport's heritage, and with a mind to the recent actions of Blackpool Pleasure Beach Ltd., I have concerns over some of the attraction currently at Blackpool Pleasure Beach. I would also like to request that the following attractions be considered for listing:

- Noah's Ark: Situated at the entrance to the park, this is one of two remaining Noah's Ark funhouses left in the world. Built in 1924, and based on the designs of one already built (and still operating) at Kennywood in the USA. This attraction is in excellent condition and stands as a testament to the abilities of the designers to make a timeless piece of entertainment. The ride is part building and part "moving boat". The riders move in and out of the structure, facing different "fun" elements - Such as moving floors; dark passageways, bottomless pits, etc. This ride is a unique attraction to the UK and has stood as the entrance way to Blackpool Pleasure Beach for over 80 years.

- The Big Dipper: Built in 1923, The Big Dipper was the first rollercoaster in Europe to be built with "up-stop" wheels. These are a set of wheels that stop the trains from leaving the track at the crest of hills. Before this invention, rollercoasters required a "brakeman" to slow the trains and keep them on the tracks. The Big Dipper was the model for almost all roller coasters to be built in the UK from that date.

- The Grand National: One of two remaining "Moebius Loop" rolelrcoasters in the world. This fantastic ride was designed by the famous Charles Paige (who later went on to design Southport's Cyclone) in 1934. The coaster is a single continuous piece of track, but is laid out so that it two trains can run on it simultaneously, side by side, as though racing. This is an exceptionally clever design, and one of the highlights of anyone's trip to Blackpool Pleasure Beach. To lose this ride would a crime to the UK's leisure industry.

- Sir Hiram Maxim's Flying Machines: The earliest remaining ride at Blackpool, Sir Hiram Maxim's flying machines were opened in 1904 and are still working, in full order today. These are the only remaining ones left in the UK, and are a vital link to our seaside resort past.

If you could please take into consideration all these items listed here? Unfortunately I am not aware of the correct procedures to follow in these matters, but I am very aware of the necessity to move quickly at the Southport site before even more of our National heritage is destroyed forever.

Yours Sincerely,


Phil Steadman
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