Off Topic - Pleasureland Southport to close

The Save Dreamland Campaign was launched by Joyland Books in January 2003 and is now supported by several thousand people. This is the place to discuss all aspects of saving Margate's famous amusement park and its iconic , Grade II listed Scenic Railway, Britain's oldest roller coaster.

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Postby Neil » 22 Sep 2006, 11:34

I've already made enquiries about other Pleasureland rides, but I think enquiries about rides at Blackpool is a great idea. Also if Rhyl has the only such surving water chute, could that be listed? I guess Dreamland would now be housing if it wasn't for the Scenic's listed status.
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Postby furie » 22 Sep 2006, 12:46

The problem is, I've no idea how to get someting listed. The work on the document that saved the Scenic was monumental, extensive and excellent. I can't see me ever being able to produce anythnig to that degree.

So I'm not sure if it's just a case of fill out an official form and then let them do the work, or if we have to present it properly?

The problem is that the Scenic was the first ever ride to be listed. This means it's still a new area to try and get things covered. I'm afraid the the chute a Rhyl will be consigned to the scrap heap. It's rebuilt, heavily modified and doesn't sit in a lovely building. Just becuase it's the last remaining version of that ride, doesn't mean that it's worht saving from an aesthetic point of view. I think a lot of the other rides will fall under the same catagory.

It's good to know that more people ar easking about the other rides. The more people that do, the mosre force of opinion there is :)

I questioned Blackpool for one main reason. The same time I heard rumours about Amanda Thompsons dislike of Southport and how much she wanted it shutting down, I heard about how much she also hates Noah's Ark, and would also like that torn down. With the action at Southport, I could just see a sudden demolition of the whole of the North end of the park.

Seriously, if the Pleasure Beach win the Super Casino, then I can se them plonking it right at the North end, over Noah's Ark, The Nash, etc, etc. I'll bet she wants a modern park at the back end of the site, with the front end dedicated to the Casino and shows. The road makes a lovely split, then she can ditch the South end to another buyer and bask in the money rolling in from a Casino at the North end.

Anyway, got a response from EH :)

Roger Bowdler wrote:Dear Mr Steadman

Thank you for the e-mail. I am copying in a number of colleagues so that we can respond fully and let you know what needs to take place to trigger action.

Yours,

Roger Bowdler


It's kind of positive I think? At least they have taken it seriously and hopefully I'll be able to push things a little further from this :)
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Postby Neil » 22 Sep 2006, 16:45

I guess if we are serious about getting stuff listed we don't want to draw attention to it. Perhaps it's best if we do things by PM.
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Postby Jim Douglas Jr. » 22 Sep 2006, 19:14

Latest update.
60-70% of the structure of the Cyclone is still up, and Peter C managed to get the demolition halted until a review of the area can be done. Apparently the site is home to the Crested Newt, an endangered species.

This may buy enough time to collect information, get awareness up, and come up with a game plan.
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Postby Neil » 22 Sep 2006, 21:37

For those wanting a bit of a cheer up, here's some comments from one of the campaign's critics.
“I don't follow your typically blinkered enthusiasts view - is that so bad? Now I call you an idiot”

“You find every tiny little thing to pick at.”
(pot, kettle, black!)
“And this warrants its own thread here?..”

“I don't really care about things anymore.”
“Get a life and move on.”

“Seems I'm a rare being in these here parts.. and at the Southport forums under an apt name..”

“Such a shame. That's another six Nash cars for me to choose from to give Keith Allen an offer for..”

. “Had he [Geoffrey Thompson] still been at the helm the same thing could well have happened, and perhaps sooner too.”

“There were problems when Geoffrey was around, regardless of any plans.”
“I'm still quite excited about what the future may hold.”

“Anyone being so obsessed to the extent of crying and balling over a ride - infact a whole park - should get out more. There's so much more to life and I'm fed up with big clubs because I've come to see they're full of really weird, silly people!”
“I'm an enthusiast - a rare sort - one whom doesn't moan (anymore, thankfully - life is nicer without it)!”
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Postby David Ellis » 22 Sep 2006, 23:04

I think I know whose quotes they are.

The person concerned has always expressed strong opinions on stuff, both positive and negative.

Interesting perspective though!

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Postby EAS » 23 Sep 2006, 12:59

I'm removing my post for reasons I will post later.
Last edited by EAS on 25 Sep 2006, 15:54, edited 3 times in total.
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Postby EAS » 23 Sep 2006, 14:25

Also - if anyone can make it:

Cyclone Protest
Sunday 12pm Go Cart Track Southport
Marine Drive


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GpVFBXwj4IE
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Postby Jim Douglas Jr. » 23 Sep 2006, 17:27

Somewhere on this message board, someone I think listed all the wooden coasters.
http://www.southportforums.com/forums/f ... y.php?f=27
They also mentioned a UK coaster club (who would know everything). If I run across that info, I'll post it and e-mail. I don't have time right now to reread all those threads over there, though. Have to get off to work.
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Postby EAS » 23 Sep 2006, 17:38

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Postby Coaster Manta » 26 Sep 2006, 10:32

A thought just occured to me - sometime over the winter a major storyline in Hollyoaks was shot in Pleasureland. Also I think they have shot there several times before. I wonder if anyone would be interested in lending their support to the campaign.

Also I too support the idea of an amusement park museum along the lines of The Black Country Museum. An important point concerning the viability of this scheme is that most of these living museums began as a charitable organisation and much of the work is still done on a charitable basis. Therefore the museum would not be operating under the same conditions and costs of a standard amusment park. Were the museum to reach a point were it could install new rides as oppose to existing or relocated rides a rebuilt Belle View Bobs or a Virgina Reel would be a substantial attraction on their own.
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Postby furie » 26 Sep 2006, 15:08

Neil wrote:I guess if we are serious about getting stuff listed we don't want to draw attention to it. Perhaps it's best if we do things by PM.


Well, I could barely get anything together, but have tried my best now. I guess a little is better than nothing. Thanks to everyone for their help.

Coaster Manta - I would love to see rebuilds at a museum, but for me it would have to be everything.

From a rebuilt Switchback, to a side-friction figure 8 toboggan, to carouselles, Speedways and Waltzers.

A true slice of the rides that made pre-war seasides a place to visit, and created our thriving park industry today.

I'm also really interested in the social side of things. The side-shows, freak-shows, stalls, fortune tellers, conmen, toffee apple sellers, mimes. The whole lot needs to be done, and I think it would be of massive interest to the British, and even foreign, public.

I can't believe that an organisation like EH can't actually see the potential of somethnig like this. It's not another stately home, or castle, but something utterly unique that they could really cash in on.
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Postby Coaster Manta » 26 Sep 2006, 17:27

I think that most living museums have a small fairground section and there is the Traction Engine and fairground Organ museum at Thursford in Norfolk but these alone arn't enough to cover what ought to be covered.

A dedicated museum could have a section on fairgrounds, rides, art and classic arcades. Also a section for amusement parks featuring displays about different parks and rides and also a section that re-creates the classic park with rides and attractions. I'm not sure whether Switchbacks and Figure 8 coasters would find space as ultimately you'd have to build rides that would be an attraction. Also the freak show would probably no longer be viable in todays politically correct times. You could certainly get rides like The Whip and Turtle chase from Blackpool and an original style water chute would be very interesting.

Most of the existing museums and preserved railways started with a group of ethusiasts who didn't want to see their heritage dissappearing. Is what we want any different?
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Postby Jim Douglas Jr. » 26 Sep 2006, 18:50

No, it isn't.
Bring in as many antiqe rides as the place will fit, and add an old-tyme style candy shop, a glass blower, old arcade games like skee-ball, a dress up in vintage clothes and get an old style sepia photo boutique.... you'd have a real winner.
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Postby furie » 26 Sep 2006, 20:15

Coaster Manta wrote:A dedicated museum could have a section on fairgrounds, rides, art and classic arcades. Also a section for amusement parks featuring displays about different parks and rides and also a section that re-creates the classic park with rides and attractions. I'm not sure whether Switchbacks and Figure 8 coasters would find space as ultimately you'd have to build rides that would be an attraction. Also the freak show would probably no longer be viable in todays politically correct times. You could certainly get rides like The Whip and Turtle chase from Blackpool and an original style water chute would be very interesting.


I have to disagree on the "rides that would be an attraction" front. A switchback and side friction coaster today would be as big a draw as any more exciting ride. You have to remember that the idea would be to produce a representation of the age, it's a museum and not a thrill park. the Cyclone was southport's biggest draw until the 80's, surely that is testiment to the success of the ride? If you start adding bigger and better, you start competing on a park scale with Blackpool. You need ot be after a very different market. If people only go for the thrill of a ride, you've missed your target and aren't succeeding as a museum. There has to be interactivity and the rides are part of it, but the thrill shouldn't over shadow the history being taught. Why have images on walls of switch backs and side-frictions, when you could build them?

The frak show idea was more of the walk through type, with strange objects and artifacts (all set up of course), to mimic it.

Jim has caught on to the idea I was looknig for, to recreate things as they where (though I would be tempted to do an add-on museum of the history of arcades :lol: ). Seriously though, you'd want people to feel just like those Edwardian seaside visitors felt. The sights, sounds and smells. With rides that are unfamiliar nowadays giving them the same kind of intrigue that our ancestors had :)
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