Tivoli Gardens Denmark - Scenic train source?

[furie]

I don't know if this has been mentioned before, or if people are aware of it.

Tivoli Gardens in Denmark are being forced to retire their Scenic Railway trains this year due to new H&S laws.

This means they have trains (with brakeman) for a 1914 Scenic going spare.

If nobody is aware of this at the campaign, is it worth getting in touch with them and seeing if they're willing to donate the old trains? Not having to rebuild rolling stock must take a lot of the cost and time out of getting the Scenic Railway back up and running.

[kevinashe]

also a possibility of getting timbers as well and perhaps track fittings

[furie]

also a possibility of getting timbers as well and perhaps track fittings

Sorry, just the trains they're retiring, not the entire ride. They have to have a system that incorporates automatic braking on the trains - you're not allowed to leave your life in the hands of the brake man.

so it's literally just the trains that are retiring.

[Nick Evans]

Sounds like a good possibility. Speaking as an amateur, do we know what the gauge of the track of the Danish trains are - and is that compatible with Dreamland's Scenic? If so, this must surely offer a headstart for reconstruction.

[Nick]

The gauge of the Margate Scenic is 27 and 3/4 inch. We have found another Scenic with the same gauge in Budapest, but I would be interested to know if the Danish trains are similar. Does anybody have any time to pursue this on our behalf?

[Jim Douglas Jr.]

Here is their website.
http://www.tivoli.dk/composite-3351.htm
Although way too far away to actually go, I could send a message.
That said, I think communication on something of this magnitude should come from the top, and there should be some cohesion in who they're talking to.

It's not like these things are growing on trees, and I'd hate to be the initial contact only to have to pass the discussion on to someone else. That might start to seem rinky-dink.

There's probably no reason the train's chassis couldn't be altered. They do it to full sized trams/trolleys.

[Jim Douglas Jr.]

Here is their website.
http://www.tivoli.dk/composite-3351.htm
Although way too far away to actually go, I could send a message.
That said, I think communication on something of this magnitude should come from the top, and there should be some cohesion in who they're talking to.

It's not like these things are growing on trees, and I'd hate to be the initial contact only to have to pass the discussion on to someone else. That might start to seem rinky-dink.

There's probably no reason the train's chassis couldn't be altered. They do it to full sized trams/trolleys.

Train. No dragons.




This Scenic Railway is spectacularly landscaped and the layout seems quite wild.

[porf]

I was over there a couple of weeks ago - could have measured them!

Definitely not as pretty as the Margate trains, but I'm biased about the dragons.

The ride itself is great, with a long dark section through the 'mountain' - for a change truly dark, no emergency exit signs or tracer lighting.

I'll mail someone I know who works there to at least see if I can find out what gauge it is.

[porterm]

Hi all

I think there may be some confusion here with Denmark's other "Scenic" in Bakken park. I visited both parks back in August to conduct a feasbility study to see if Bakken's trains, which they are planning to replace with new Kumbak coaster automated trains, could be useful for us. However, I was susprised that this 1932 built "Scenic" actually had "upstop" wheels and no "bogies" (I believe that's what they're called) guide wheel units, with a brakeman at the very rear of the train. Their track gauge was also quite a bit larger than Margate's Scenic. The park are not apparently letting any original trains go though as they might either require them for future specialist anniversary events or special occasions, or if their proposed replacement trains were unsuccessful they might still need to run the originals as a fallback plan. (The park gave a friend and myself a personal behind the scenes tour of the Scenic that was very interesting).

I have many pictures of both Denmark Scenics that I could try to post here if people are interested. I thought Bakken was a very natural, nicely landscaped park with some very unique attractions. Even had a ghost train with an added "live" element (an operator actually touched my ankles and one time grabbed the front of the carriage, staring at us with a scary mask on!) Sadly this park cannot celebrate Halloween in its correct period as they are compelled to close the whole park on August 31 every year owing to local noise level legislation.

An operator on the Tivoli Gardens Scenic (built in 1914) gave me an information sheet on the ride's statistics, although all in the local language. The ride's track gauge definitely looked smaller than our Margate Scenic though, however their trains are more identical with bogey wheels, but no dragon heads on the front carriages sadly. During my August visit they were actually celebrating 166 years of park operation and they were giving 166 minutes of free Scenic riding on that Sunday. They attached Danish flags around the ride's station and to the front of each train; it was quite an experience! (I loved this Scenic, one I never dreamed I'd actually get to ride - as Paul said its finalee dark section with its switching turns was quite something else). The only downside for me was the rather high cost of admission to Tivoli - we found buying a season pass was actually the lowest cost option, however they also charge a daily rate on top for ride wristbands.

I can pass the Tivoli Scenic fact sheet details over to Nick Laister, however I could not see any mention of the track gauge. Ole Jensen, Bakken's park administrations manager, told me that it was a Scotsman who had built the original Tivoli Scenic and then wanted to build a much higher, larger coaster, which came to take residence at Bakken. I thought Ole was very helpful and accommodating in my recent visit and cannot thank him enough for his generous hospitality - as he said in his recent e-mail to me, he was pleased it wasn't his park that blew my trip budget! (Word of warning; you need some serious funds to have a good time in Denmark as it seemed to be very expensive to the non resident - apparently they have low taxes but one pays for it on their everyday purchases). The people were very friendly though - would be great to have a Campaign group trip there one day I reckon.

Finally, sorry for waffling, it seems like the Budapest Scenic might be our best chance to acquire some possible trains. I believe the park it sits in is rumoured to be closing, or downsizing but I must admit to not having done much investigation there. Could be good to pay them a visit next year maybe.

Martin

[Nick]

Our main problem at the moment is that we don't have any funds to buy and transport any Scenic trains, hence no further progress on this beyond identifying that there are trains of the same gauge at Budapest. That situation will change if/when we secure our main gant funding which has an allowance for restoration of the Scenic Railway. Train acquisition (or rebuild) is costed into this.

Nick

[Vince, Charlie and Sam]

I find it absolutely astonishing that these trains have been running for 95 years without incident, but now they suddenly aren't safe.

Why don't the authorities simply do the usual Health and Safety nonsense and just make the brakeman wear a high-viz vest or something?

[David Ellis]

I am confused by the comments about the two Danish scenic railways. I understood from a Danish ECC member that the Bakken scenic was losing its brakemen for next season, but this is the first time I have seen the scenic at Tivoli being referred to with similar goings on. Can anyone confirm if this also applies to the one at Tivoli (I hope it doesn't really). But, if the change is due to a national Health & Safety issue, why would one coaster be affected but not the other scenic?

The Hungary scenic at Vidam Park is safe as far as I am aware. The park itself was relocating most of its rides the other side of the main road, but I understood that the scenic was being kept in its original location. Would be good to get confirmation of that though.

Having ridden all the European scenics apart from the one in Spain, it is a real shame that any of them should have to lose the brakemen...it is part of their charm and uniqueness.

David.

[JMT]

Nick, Justin @ ECC knows the Tivoli people really well. He should be the one to contact to arrange any discussion once funding is in place. But I would personnaly favor the Vidam trains.

[aweber1us]

With the British H+S being the most over the top in the world will we then also have a simular problem in years to come. With there being so much work needed on the Scenic will it be tested to a more modern standard anyway which now would not allow a ride on brakeman? Dont wish to be negative but i see things like this all time in engineering.

[Nick]

I must admit that I don't see the H&S issue with a brakeman. I am assuming it is the 'human element' that H&S don't like. But we have people driving coaches and flying planes; why shouldn't a person be trusted to brake a Scenic Railway? I cannot understand why Bakken has been forced to lose the brakeman.