News from Thanet Council (MTCRC to sell site or face CPO)

[Nick Evans]

Important development announced today by Thanet Council over the Dreamland site. It would be well worth looking at this news story from the KM Extra http://www.kentonline.co.uk/kentonline/news/2010/april/26/dreamland_latest.aspx Others may wish to leave comments on the end of this item from one of Thanet's many bloggers http://eastcliffrichard.blogspot.com/2010/04/dream-scheme.html which doesn't seem entirely correct to me!
Anyway, important to get a debate going on this I think.

[Vince, Charlie and Sam]

Thanet council is threatening tough legal action to secure the rebirth of Margate's Dreamland amusement park.

Officials warn that if the Margate Town Centre Regeneration Company (MTCRC) does not hand over the historic site before the end of July, it could face a compulsory purchase order.

The move would enable the authority to pass ownership of the land to the Dreamland Trust, which wants to transform the desolate site into the world's first heritage amusement park - a project regarded as critical to the regeneration of the area.

A grant of £3.8 million from the government's Sea Change programme has prompted the rush. The funding, awarded last year, must be used by March 31, 2011, or it will be withdrawn. This summer's cut-off date would allow building work to start before the grant offer expires.

As I have previously stated, I do not and never have believed that MTCRC has any intention of co-operating with the Campaign in seeing Dreamland re-open, and I have previously stated that the site should be subject to a compulsory purchase order- had this happened when it was originally suggested, the Scenic Railway would not have burnt down in the first place.

[porf]

Well now's a good time to CPO or purchase while land prices are relatively low. Blackpool's done it and Bournemouth is trying with it's ugly sea-front cinema complex.

I just wish TDC would veer more towards "we will CPO" rather than the woolier "could/may/might" - it all sounds too similar to the threats to CPO after the fire.

The bit I find a little worrying is this :

A grant of £3.8 million from the government's Sea Change programme has prompted the rush. The funding, awarded last year, must be used by March 31, 2011, or it will be withdrawn. This summer's cut-off date would allow building work to start before the grant offer expires.

I hadn't realised such a March 2011 deadline was in place and given some past owners of the site have been happy to stall for a long time to get what they want it seems a touch worrying.

I could see some developers being more interested in stalling until that deadline passes - are there any plans in place if TDC don't follow through on their threats to CPO and MTCRC drags their feet?

But essentially good news that the site should end up with the trust one way or another - would have been great if the whole site could be purchased or CPO'd

[EAS]

It's all really quite complex is CPO, but really, until the Scenic fire, no legal grounds.

[Vince, Charlie and Sam]

It's all really quite complex is CPO, but really, until the Scenic fire, no legal grounds.

And after it?

I have been involved in many campaigns in my time, some we have won and some we have lost, but I have to say that this is the most supine and acquiescent campaign I have ever known.

Let's just let Mr Godden build his flats so we can all get on with life.

[EAS]

There were no legal grounds on which to CPO prior to the fire.

If you think there were, do point all in the direction of the legal stuff.

Blackpool has not CPOd it has bought... at many millions, government funded, a first, and maybe a one off. Bournemouth has also bought from the owner

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/dorset/8492386.stm

However, those were willing sellers.

But those who think this is simple re Dreamland need to consider it isn't. And yes, I've been very much involved in national campaigns over many decades, and I think I can say I've learned a great deal about how things work. Well, you have to. Sorta campaigns with major public inquiries and Judicial Reviews and Commons Select Committees.

This isn't supine, appalling suggestion, but we need the right result. It's not simple and I'm sure if you have wider insight into the legal ins and outs Nick and co would be interested.

There are people heavily involved with this campaign who have, over many years, given up untold hours of their own time (including holidays), thousands of pounds of their cash, vast amounts of unpaid expertise, and if you think you can do better and know more, no doubt you will be welcomed as a Trustee on the Dreamland Trust.

[Vince, Charlie and Sam]

This isn't supine, appalling suggestion, but we need the right result. It's not simple and I'm sure if you have wider insight into the legal ins and outs Nick and co would be interested.

There are people heavily involved with this campaign who have, over many years, given up untold hours of their own time (including holidays), thousands of pounds of their cash, vast amounts of unpaid expertise, and if you think you can do better and know more, no doubt you will be welcomed as a Trustee on the Dreamland Trust.

I have my own job, which consumes the vast majority of my time- I am in Margate now but this morning, for example, I woke up in Bolton, Lancashire. When I do have time off, I spend it with my children, but anyone doubting that I do not have a strong interest in seeing Dreamland re-open needs only ask Dave771 which forum member has handed over the most money in ride fares in the days when the Scenic Railway was running, and which forum member would most love to do the same again.

Therefore, these slightly snide insinuations are simply a waste of your time and mine.


There are some on here who believe that the Campaign, and Messrs Godden and Hunter have formed some type of partnership. Well, good luck, and may the Lord's blessing go with you.

[EAS]

Has it occurred to you that all this sniping about all that has been achieved by people working against huge odds to get this far might actually be demoralising?

There are people who have given up untold hours of time and cash and have jobs and don't live in Margate. They have families too.

I agree, sniping from the sidelines is bad. So do stop, as you have not the first idea really what's going on, have you?

But it's good the have a whinge, eh?

Of course the campaign has to work as best it can with the site owners and the council and all involved. I think you should get real.

It's vast and complex and challenging and I for one am thankful for all the work Nick and the team have put in, unpaid, over many years, all those who have donated, all the expertise, and if you think you can do better then do it... or keep quiet. and that goes for the rest of the people you say are whining in the shadows.

Maybe they'd like to come out of the shadows and do something useful. How good would that be?

[Vince, Charlie and Sam]

It would have been easier to have said "I don't know what a forum is".

[EAS]

So you want to spend your time whining about people who have got us this far.

You don't understand CPO's you don't understand the working relationships whch have to be part of this, and clearly you don't understand how fed up Nick and co must be to be reading this sort of sniping. You know, the people who have got off their bums and actually put in the work, unpaid, for years.

How about some positivity? How about thanks to them? That might actually make them think it's been worthwhile.

[Neil]

It’s obvious that the people involved with the Campaign and the Dreamland Trust are doing their best. Of course their hearts are in the right place. Sarah’s passionate about Margate’s tourism, that’s obvious from the fact she runs the shell grotto. Nick’s passionate about amusement parks. That’s obvious from Joyland Books, listing the Scenic, the books he’s written, Skelter Publishing, his involvement with the Magic Eye... (I’ll stop there because I could go on all day and the next), Dave’s very passionate. When he ran the Scenic he gave up a massive amount of time to give people such as myself behind the scenes tours, and Susan’s given up a lot of time despite being on various other committees (and I seem to remember she had a rather impressive Scenic Railway cake for one of her birthdays, although I maybe mixing that up with someone else). I don’t think anyone doubts their fierce commitment. If Nick turns up on the telly tomorrow and says, 'you know what, I never did want Dreamland. I was bluffing. Just an April Fools that got out of hand', I'm sure we'll all be choking on our Weetabix.

Obviously other members have contributed to a lesser extent with help fundraising, writing letters to politicians, the media etc and are clearly going to have their views. We will never know what would have happened if things had been different so it’s only speculation and arguably the important thing is what happens next. In fairness you can’t really blame people for being cynical, although I expect ‘Vince, Charlie and Sam’ realise that the coordinators have acted in the best of faith. It might be that everyone else has also acted in the best of faith, but even if they have I’m sure they’d understand if people were cynical. I think people are cynical of politicians in general (especially after the expenses scandal). Some politicians are genuinely doing their best, but they must understand the cynicism. In the election debates all the party leaders have admitted that people are going to be cynical. (sorry, I did use a certain word rather a lot in that paragraph)

I expect a lot of people realise that planning laws are complicated, but people will still form opinions, just as people form opinions on the EU without having read the constitution, or on the different party’s economic plans without having studied economics (or the plans themselves). People will naturally form opinions, regardless of how informed they are. That said, Vince, Charlie and Sam have been involved with the campaign for a long time. They probably know more about planning laws than your average person even if a lot less than Nick. It’s a valid opinion. I don’t know much about planning laws myself but am doing my best to understand the difficulties and options. I’m sure they are as well. If you’re more clued up maybe you could recommend some resources so other people can learn more. I realise that this might be difficult as planning laws change, but if you know of books or websites that might help maybe you could post a link. Members are doing their best to understand the situation.

[Vince, Charlie and Sam]

I am not knocking the work that Nick, Sarah or anyone else at the core of the campaign have done, far from it. Had Nick not had the Scenic Railway listed in 2003, Dreamland would have been re-developed long ago.


The only statement I am making is that I do not believe there is any spirit of co-operation from Messrs Godden and Hunter, and we now need to fully support any attempt by Thanet District Council to have the site compulsorily purchased.

Yes, my posts are frank, and blunt, and sometimes possibly confrontational, but I am after all a resident of Margate and have a closer view of the situation than others.

And, as I have said, this is a forum. A forum is a place for the exchange of views and not simply a one-sided promotional tool, where only one viewpoint is tolerated. Or, at least it should be.

Please, please please, prove me wrong in what I say. I am more than willing to eat a huge slice of Humble Pie if only me and the boys can ride the Scenic Railway again.


Compulsory Purchase is now our only chance. Godden and Hunter are not going to voluntarily give Dreamland back to Margate.

[Neil]

Thanks for your response. This forum doesn't have a 'like' button like others do, but your local perspective is definitely appreciated. Obviously you're in a position to gague opinion from overhearing things in the chip shop or down the pub (not that I'm implying you eat lots of chips/drink lots of beer).

[EAS]

Maybe they are, maybe they aren't willing participants, but the situation is sensitive and can we let people we trust get on with it without making them feel their years of effort have been wasted?

No doubt if and when all other avenues have been explored then Thanet will take the appropriate action. Until then, the site owners have to be given the benefit of the doubt, no matter what anyone may feel privately. And if they do not willingly hand over, aftr all that they have agreed, and now that finally the planning brief for the site is clear, then that would be very foolish indeed of them. It's clear that the wider regeneration of Margate now requires a working Dreamland.

[Neil]

Their efforts definitely haven't been wasted. Regardless of what happens they've provided a lot of fun events (I'm sure there'll more fun this weekend with Carta's Steam fair) and if it does fall through the rides in storage might find another home. Plus the campaign has become a community that wouldn't exist without them.