Dreamland, Amusment park or not?

[porf]

"Bob"

Once again - How about letting us know your interest in the campaign as has been requested more than a few times now.

You seem to have very strong opinions (well one opinion that you keep repeating regardless of the thread context) but a fear of answering such a simple question.

[Nick]

That was a nice attempt to avoid answering my question, Bob. Can I therefore assume that you can't answer my previous question?

Nick

Well you either want an Amusement Park it will have to be a compromise. There is no way at all that Dreamland is viable as a 100% amusement park. If you hold out for that you will end up with an empty derelict site which benefits no one. With the right mix of retail and amusement park you end up with a high class facilty that benefits both the tourist industry and the people of Margate. It seems though your preference is for an empty site. If the site remains empty the chances are you will end up with no amusement park at all. The Scenic Railway has to remain but that does not mean that it has to be open.

I see that you still haven't answered my question.

I am actually quite enjoying this, so here is another question (although, I have now learnt that I shouldn't necessarily expect an answer, as so far you have not been prepared to back up any of your throw-away comments): Why would holding out for a 100% amusement park mean that the site will go derelict? There are people out there who have gone into print stating that they would be prepared to buy and operate the entire site as an amusement park (read my proof of evidence if you are in any doubt). These people are willing to take a chance on the site. And these are people who know how to run an amusement park. Dreamland hasn't been run well for a large number of years. (I say that as a visitor to Dreamland and other seaside parks over many years, not as any comment on your boss's management style. I know what I like and I didn't like the way that Dreamland was run by Mr Godden at all).

Put simply, I am absolutely confident that one of these top quality operators could make a go of Dreamland and transform Margate at the same time. And the Inspector was confident, too. That is enough for me.

Nick

[Stephen]

You are totalling evading the point yet again Bob

You are purely giving an opinion as to what you (or whoever you speak for) would do and what you think is viable. As you have, so far, failed to tell us who you are or the 'qualifications' that inform your opinion, be they experience or professional.

On what basis can you tell us something isn't viable, the current owner has made choices and that was to run down the site, hence it's current sorry state, and use that as a reason to develop and make a substantial capital gain.

You know that a respected business man with a successful track record has deemed the site to be viable as an amusement park, clearly able to give him the return he wants on his investment.

The point you are failing to answer, and I suspect deliberately, is the relative land values for differing uses.

There is a buyer ready and willing to acquire the site at amusement park value the question of viability would then become his so you wouldn't have to worry about it would you. However, if the current owner is looking to sell the site at a land value greater than that ...............

There have been a number of requests for you to declare your real identity and interest in this matter; the speculation appears to be correct as all the more recent posts lead us in that direction. You have been given the opportunity to debate the issue and am sure that will continue so why not do it honestly and openly?

[Sarah]

Poor old Bob has got a serious shopping obsession hasn't he? I bet he's on first-name terms with the check out girls in Primark.

The very last thing that Margate needs is more retail development. The Inspector was clear on the kind of retail he considered appropriate, as of course an amusement park would have some supporting shops. But you only have to wander down Margate High Street to witness how many shopkeepers have given up on the struggle to make money here, or opted for a shiney new unit at Westwood X.

Margate Old Town is in even more trouble - in the last month we have lost the record shop and Turnstone Gallery, the two latest in a very long line of failed ventures down there (and I speak as someone who tried to run a shop in Market Street, ploughed lots of money and enthusiasm in and lasted about 18 months). And as for Northdown Road, all our useful little shops are giving up the ghost (I particularly mourn Doolittles and the fabric shop) and Cliftonville can surely now boast the highest density of charity shops in the western world.

This town has empty shops galore. What we need are people to spend money in them. And how do we attract people to the town? Answers on a postcard to TDC, PO Box 9, Cecil Street, Margate CT9 1XZ.

Sarah

[cliffc]

Poor old Bob has got a serious shopping obsession hasn't he? I bet he's on first-name terms with the check out girls in Primark.

The very last thing that Margate needs is more retail development. The Inspector was clear on the kind of retail he considered appropriate, as of course an amusement park would have some supporting shops. But you only have to wander down Margate High Street to witness how many shopkeepers have given up on the struggle to make money here, or opted for a shiney new unit at Westwood X.

Margate Old Town is in even more trouble - in the last month we have lost the record shop and Turnstone Gallery, the two latest in a very long line of failed ventures down there (and I speak as someone who tried to run a shop in Market Street, ploughed lots of money and enthusiasm in and lasted about 18 months). And as for Northdown Road, all our useful little shops are giving up the ghost (I particularly mourn Doolittles and the fabric shop) and Cliftonville can surely now boast the highest density of charity shops in the western world.

This town has empty shops galore. What we need are people to spend money in them. And how do we attract people to the town? Answers on a postcard to TDC, PO Box 9, Cecil Street, Margate CT9 1XZ.

Sarah

Hi

I have said much the same as Sarah in other recent posts (any one whos intrested can read them).

But in a nutshell shops are closeing because no one is coming to Margate so the shops are there are not taking any cash due lack of custom and closeing down, it would seem that the TDC seem to need to look at why thease buisness are going to ground. The answer is not rocket scince is it not enough visitors spending money to support thease shops.

And we have Jimm er sorry again Bob saying more shops are needed in place of Dreamland, so we have many empty shops becasue there are not enough visitors.

We have a nice big plot of land that many people have expressed more than an intrest in turning into a world class tourist attraction with the senec at its center, this would attract people with cash to spend into the town, then the shops that are empty will reopen because people will be willing to invest in town where thay can make a return on that investment.

I think we can see where Jimmy stands by a line in one of bobs messages above. " The senic has to stay there but it does not have to be open" I think that sums up the Godden position he dont care about the senic, the town, the only thing he cares about is lining his already fat bank account with more cash.

It's time that TDC reailsed that as a seaside resort like any other Margate needs to have visitors to survive and prosper, and to have visitors there has to be places to attract them, at the moment with the exeption of Sarahs Shell Grotto and a few Amusement arcades there is little else to attact visitors to the town. With a committed operatoir who will restore the senic to its former glory and then build an attraction around this worthy of the 21'st century, then promote it well, and extend the season to get visitors into the town most weekends of the year, as well as possibly opening over the xmas period. Once this has done then visitors will return, long closed business premices will re-open as new people will see the benifits of opening in Margate, when thease are all filled, then and only then should the TDC look to build new retial premices, and thease should be built close to the existing ones in the shopping area of town.


CLiff C

[Chris H]

I think Bob needs to make a confession
(Godden in disguise)

[marky.com]

Sorry Bob, I don't agree with you.

Having been a regular visitor to the park since the mid 1980s, I can remember when, though a bit untidy, it was a busy, thriving amusement park. Though I visited and tried to support the park this year, I don't enjoy visiting Margate much anymore as I find it's emptiness upsetting.

Taking Deamland out of the equation, Margate's core attraction is a beautiful sandy, safe beach with traditional British sea front charm. It's a formula that has worked in Blackpool for a similar amount of time.

However, it needs something more to attract bigger numbers. You don't need me to remind you of Southend and the revitalisation that Adventure Island has brought to it - but please be objective.

Any amusement/theme park development on the site will take a bit of time to really get going. However, a well cared for family park, with decent attractions (I tend to imagine it's potential as somewhere between Adventure Island and Thorpe Park) will be a major attraction. Thorpe is great and Tussauds/DIC are investing so much money in it - don't you think they wouldn't be doing it if it wasn't viable?

With a decent line up of rides, Dreamland's position on a beautiful beach would make it THE beachside amusement park of the south.

As word spread, visitor numbers would grow and the area will be revitalised.

I found a beautiful little cafe bar just near the harbour on my last visit in June, which for me summed up Margate's potential. Cosmopolitan, a nice view over the harbour, cocktails, nice food, lots of veggie options etc. In it were me and my mate, a young arty couple and a little old lady in her 80s drinking tea. It summed up Margate's potential very well.

Rooted in traditional British seaside 'kiss-me-quick hats' & 'fish 'n' chips' charm, it deserves the chance to expand into a modern version - one where the original charm remains and sits alongside modern chill-out bars, restaurants, nightlife and the timeless beach itself. Dreamland too deserves the chance to become a modern, well themed park with great rides - all wrapped around the beauty and history of both itself and the Scenic Railway.

Nothing other than a really good amusement park will ever kick-start that process. Dreamland is quite literally the heart of Margate. If your heart suffers - you suffer. Margate's heart has suffered for a while - and the town itself consequently too. However, it hasn't stopped beating.

Nick has kept it going - and I look forward to once again getting on the train, and feeling the buzz and excitement that a day out to Margate and Dreamland used to offer.

The only other other option is that Margate continues to deteriorate.

PS. If this post makes it all seem too simple, it's because - in truth - the situation there is.

[Bob]

Sorry Bob, I don't agree with you.

Having been a regular visitor to the park since the mid 1980s, I can remember when, though a bit untidy, it was a busy, thriving amusement park. Though I visited and tried to support the park this year, I don't enjoy visiting Margate much anymore as I find it's emptiness upsetting.

Taking Deamland out of the equation, Margate's core attraction is a beautiful sandy, safe beach with traditional British sea front charm. It's a formula that has worked in Blackpool for a similar amount of time.

However, it needs something more to attract bigger numbers. You don't need me to remind you of Southend and the revitalisation that Adventure Island has brought to it - but please be objective.

Any amusement/theme park development on the site will take a bit of time to really get going. However, a well cared for family park, with decent attractions (I tend to imagine it's potential as somewhere between Adventure Island and Thorpe Park) will be a major attraction. Thorpe is great and Tussauds/DIC are investing so much money in it - don't you think they wouldn't be doing it if it wasn't viable?

With a decent line up of rides, Dreamland's position on a beautiful beach would make it THE beachside amusement park of the south.

As word spread, visitor numbers would grow and the area will be revitalised.

I found a beautiful little cafe bar just near the harbour on my last visit in June, which for me summed up Margate's potential. Cosmopolitan, a nice view over the harbour, cocktails, nice food, lots of veggie options etc. In it were me and my mate, a young arty couple and a little old lady in her 80s drinking tea. It summed up Margate's potential very well.

Rooted in traditional British seaside 'kiss-me-quick hats' & 'fish 'n' chips' charm, it deserves the chance to expand into a modern version - one where the original charm remains and sits alongside modern chill-out bars, restaurants, nightlife and the timeless beach itself. Dreamland too deserves the chance to become a modern, well themed park with great rides - all wrapped around the beauty and history of both itself and the Scenic Railway.

Nothing other than a really good amusement park will ever kick-start that process. Dreamland is quite literally the heart of Margate. If your heart suffers - you suffer. Margate's heart has suffered for a while - and the town itself consequently too. However, it hasn't stopped beating.

Nick has kept it going - and I look forward to once again getting on the train, and feeling the buzz and excitement that a day out to Margate and Dreamland used to offer.

The only other other option is that Margate continues to deteriorate.

PS. If this post makes it all seem too simple, it's because - in truth - the situation there is.

I am afraid you are in a tim warp. The days of mass visitors to seaside resorts & fairgrounds are over. There is a market there but a very small one. You give as an example Blackpool. Blackpool is really struggling to survive its certainly not thriving.

There is a place for a smaller scale Dreamland but that would at best occupy half the site. The rest will need to other retail and leisure facilities. It may not be what you want to hear but its the only viable approach..

Lok how many people visited this year, yes the number of rides etc was limited but attendences were very poor indeed and on most weekdays it operated at a big loss.

[ricardobugsy]

Q. Who said this?

I think with the sale of the site for Retail Development its the End for Dreamland & the final nail in the coffin of what little is left of Margates Tourists Industry. We are seeing the final years of it. Hopefully much of Margates last years of Dreamland will be captured on video.

I don't think a send rate retail development will be of much interest to tourist.

Dreamland was the last chance salon for revieving Margates tourist industry. Sadly its not to be. The council have decided that what is needed is yet another shopping centre. Unfortunately there are already too many shopping centres but it seems to be the in thing with councils at the moment. The existing town centre shopping facilities are large enough. Most of the big stores will stay out of the town centres and shops will gradually declines as well with the impact of the Internet.

[jmace9]

Sorry Bob, I don't agree with you.

Having been a regular visitor to the park since the mid 1980s, I can remember when, though a bit untidy, it was a busy, thriving amusement park. Though I visited and tried to support the park this year, I don't enjoy visiting Margate much anymore as I find it's emptiness upsetting.

Taking Deamland out of the equation, Margate's core attraction is a beautiful sandy, safe beach with traditional British sea front charm. It's a formula that has worked in Blackpool for a similar amount of time.

However, it needs something more to attract bigger numbers. You don't need me to remind you of Southend and the revitalisation that Adventure Island has brought to it - but please be objective.

Any amusement/theme park development on the site will take a bit of time to really get going. However, a well cared for family park, with decent attractions (I tend to imagine it's potential as somewhere between Adventure Island and Thorpe Park) will be a major attraction. Thorpe is great and Tussauds/DIC are investing so much money in it - don't you think they wouldn't be doing it if it wasn't viable?

With a decent line up of rides, Dreamland's position on a beautiful beach would make it THE beachside amusement park of the south.

As word spread, visitor numbers would grow and the area will be revitalised.

I found a beautiful little cafe bar just near the harbour on my last visit in June, which for me summed up Margate's potential. Cosmopolitan, a nice view over the harbour, cocktails, nice food, lots of veggie options etc. In it were me and my mate, a young arty couple and a little old lady in her 80s drinking tea. It summed up Margate's potential very well.

Rooted in traditional British seaside 'kiss-me-quick hats' & 'fish 'n' chips' charm, it deserves the chance to expand into a modern version - one where the original charm remains and sits alongside modern chill-out bars, restaurants, nightlife and the timeless beach itself. Dreamland too deserves the chance to become a modern, well themed park with great rides - all wrapped around the beauty and history of both itself and the Scenic Railway.

Nothing other than a really good amusement park will ever kick-start that process. Dreamland is quite literally the heart of Margate. If your heart suffers - you suffer. Margate's heart has suffered for a while - and the town itself consequently too. However, it hasn't stopped beating.

Nick has kept it going - and I look forward to once again getting on the train, and feeling the buzz and excitement that a day out to Margate and Dreamland used to offer.

The only other other option is that Margate continues to deteriorate.

PS. If this post makes it all seem too simple, it's because - in truth - the situation there is.

I am afraid you are in a tim warp. The days of mass visitors to seaside resorts & fairgrounds are over. There is a market there but a very small one. You give as an example Blackpool. Blackpool is really struggling to survive its certainly not thriving.

There is a place for a smaller scale Dreamland but that would at best occupy half the site. The rest will need to other retail and leisure facilities. It may not be what you want to hear but its the only viable approach..

Lok how many people visited this year, yes the number of rides etc was limited but attendences were very poor indeed and on most weekdays it operated at a big loss.

Bob stop stop stop. Please Answer the question who do you work for?

[dave771]

lets face facts its so obvious who Bob is and he was nothing better to do than talk b***ocks on here, cant be much work for him these days as most of his employers properties have either been sold to developers or mysteriously burnt down !

[cliffc]

I am afraid you are in a tim warp. The days of mass visitors to seaside resorts & fairgrounds are over. There is a market there but a very small one. You give as an example Blackpool. Blackpool is really struggling to survive its certainly not thriving.

There is a place for a smaller scale Dreamland but that would at best occupy half the site. The rest will need to other retail and leisure facilities. It may not be what you want to hear but its the only viable approach..

Lok how many people visited this year, yes the number of rides etc was limited but attendences were very poor indeed and on most weekdays it operated at a big loss.[/quote]

Hi

Ho look its Jimmy, Bob or Godden and hes talking out of his ar** again, Blackpool stuggling to survive I dont think so I Visit blackpool at least 3 times a year, this year I visited there during the easter weekend, a midweek trip in June and an overnight stay on a friday in Aug, on all of thease visits the town was full of people and the attractions and a shops were all doing good trade, the pleasure beach was as busy as ever, now i know blackpool is much bigger than Margate, but Blackpool is a busy vibrant place. However i would agree that Blackpools visitor profile has changed since i went there for a weeks holiday in the 60's and early 70's I think that now the visitor tends to be short brake, han and stags and day trippers

Its not surprizeing that visitor numbers to dreamland were low this year what with late opening, ealry closeing, from what i read on here unfreindly staff and it would seem and unpopular payment option, it would seem that the whole operation was done to make it look that Dreamland was not viable, and we can only speculate who was behind that (not that we have to speculate to hard).

But with work done on the site an committed operator who beleves in the park and with staff working for them who beleave in the operator, Dreamland can once again make money, attract large numbers of visitors, and thus makeing Margate as a whole more vibrant.

CLiff C

[Chris H]

Theirs only one person who could come on this forum and attempt to run it and dreamland in to the ground.
Weve all seen it so many times before and were are not going to stand
for any of this con any longer


Godden lets face it, your fighting a losing battle mate!

[Nick]

Lok how many people visited this year, yes the number of rides etc was limited but attendences were very poor indeed and on most weekdays it operated at a big loss.

Hardly surprising. All offers from TV companies (e.g. ITV Meridian and Sky) that I am aware of to feature Dreamland were turned down. There was an entrance charge. The fencing surrounding it made it look like a building site. It was scruffy, and had a worryingly menacing atmosphere. It was advertised as being open, but was closed on numerous days. I could go on, but I won't.

I visited with Dave Collard on a nice day in June this year (on the Preston Rally weekend). Suffice to say, I didn't go back with my family, as I have most years. Sadly, Dreamland was not a family attraction.

Worryingly, I found myself whispering (under my breath): "Please bring back Mr Godden, all is forgiven."

Nick

[David Ellis]

There is a place for a smaller scale Dreamland but that would at best occupy half the site. The rest will need to other retail and leisure facilities. It may not be what you want to hear but its the only viable approach..

Yawn, yawn, yawn...it's like that proverbial broken record, isn't it?

Bob...please explain who you are on the "introducing yourselves" thread, it is only courteous, after all, to answer other members' polite requests to you.

We know where you are coming from, there's no need to keep repeating it, but don't be rude and ignore our friendly requests for information on the context under which you post to this forum.

Thanks,
David.