Exhibition of Dreamland Proposals

[Bob]

Bob - you clearly have not a clue about much of this. This is all waffle. You are relentlessly negative in the most vague of terms. Have you ever beeen involved with anything like this on a personal basis?

I wonder if you have any idea of the work which has been put into all this? Have you even read properly what Nick has said?

Would you please now detail grant aiding bodies with which you have ever had any personal contact, or arts or national heritage organisations with which you have contacts?

You don't think that a museum and a heritage park is culture then? What's your version of 'culture'?

I think I could make a case, I think a project officer with experience of grant aid could make a case, and the Regeneration Partnership could make a very strong case indeed.

We have made some initial enquiries to funding organisations, and to inspectors who work on behalf of these organisations, and the initial response we have received is very positive. The fact that it would be the only heritage amusement park in the country significantly increases our chances, as does the fact that much of our park heritage is currently being lost. The fact that we would be creating a heritage amusement park around the single most important piece of amusement park heritage in the country also significantly increases our chances.

There is also the matter of Section 106 funding, which this project would be eligible for, potentially in lieu of affordable housing (which means that there would be no loss to the developer at all).

We have done a lot of work on this behind the scenes - we wouldn't be going public on this now were it not for the fact that we were confident that this project is deliverable.

Nothing that Bob has said above gives me the slightest cause for concern because it is almost all ill-founded.

I am not saying funding will be impossible to obtain just that it will be very difficult. You of course must know it would be imposible to go forward with this without funding being in place. That is very different to funding potentialy being available. In most cases as well you would be expected to match the funding. How do you proposs to do that ?

[Bob]

Let's look at the planning issues - I think Waterbridge has yet to prove the entire site unviable as a park, which it should do according to the Planning Inspectorate?

However - that had the waters muddied a little I think in the local plan.

So Waterbridge might have some problems doing exactly what it wishes with the site, but handing over a large chunk of it including a major heritage asset and plenty of cash in a Section 106 must help it on its way. The Section 106 would be instead of affordable housing, which is required otherwise (and gets quite complex for developers).

Of course, if Waterbridge allows the Scenic to become in a poor state of repair it could find itself on the end of compulsory purchase alongside who knows how much land with it? There is already an organisation willing to take it on in a back-to-back. And others willing to run the site who have a great deal of expertise.

I think it needs to start talking to people like the campaign. Like now. And realise just what a mess it has got itself into.

It would be quite easy to demonstrate that the entire site as an Amusement park is unviable. Attempts have been made to operate it as an amusement park during the last few summer seasons. These were not successful and actually made a loss. One can also point to the fact that several similar seaside attractions have closes due to poor financial performance and dwindling attendances.

A smaller scale amusement Park on the site could be viable and the plans include such a scheme as an option based around the Scenic Railway.

[Vince, Charlie and Sam]

Attempts have been made to operate it as an amusement park during the last few summer seasons. .

I think you are probably talking about somewhere different to the rest of us, Bob!

[Lou]

Yes, hardly think that the last few years are a true represention of Dreamland operating as an amusement park!!! The travelling fairs that have been there have only operated as travelling fairs, thats by no means disrespectful, but Dreamlands viability should not be judged on that, there is much more to be considered.

[zamfir]

Yes, hardly think that the last few years are a true represention of Dreamland operating as an amusement park!!!

Totally agree with that, and I also reckon that with a committed owner, it could be viable again!

According to the Loudoun Castle employee I spoke with on Sunday, they are turning a good profit. That is essentially with the old Dreamland rides and the previous (committed) family/owner of Dreamland/Bembom's.

The (near-on yearly) addition of decent rides, low admission/ride price and included live entertainment all helps to make it a winner. The travelling fairs gave none of that, and hence, it would run at a loss!

Bring back Henk!

[kevinashe]

i think that if was run as a trust then it would get more support from the public ie nobody is taking money out of the site and profits would be used for maintaining and posslble purchase of other endangered structures,many lottery funded attractions operate at a lower cost thus prices would be able to be kept low which is probably the reason other parks in the uk are struggling as families cannot afford to pay sixty,seventy pounds plus for a day out

[EAS]

Match funding Bob? Anyone who knows about funding knows that once one pot is in place others follow. There is no rule which says only fifty percent. Of course as part of the Section 106 Waterbridge would need to stump up some cash too. And as has ben stated - the place has been run into the ground, not properly run as it could have been. There are plenty of thriving parks and I think one very thriving park owner willing to take on Dreamland if given half a chance?

Of course, if Waterbridge say the park is unviable and therefore worthless land that rather makes any compulsory purchse a cheap option.

Also - the AHF will give funding towards paying a Project Officer with experience of funding issues, as there are listed structures involved which would be in the care of a trust and community/public use is involved.

But I wonder what the conditions were when the previous grant was given? These things usually come with strings attached...

Still Bob - you almost got positive there about the heritage idea. Blimey. Is this a first?

[Chris H]

Produce your ridiculous statistics for that one then bob. Rides operating at Loudon castle that were operated in Dreamland up to 20 years ago still making profit.

I'm waiting Bob

[porterm]

Hi all,

I just thought I'd let you know that I, rather unenthusiastically, attempted to get down on Monday 7 May to check out this exhibit. As I could not get any friends to go down with me, I eventually rolled into the park's car park at just before 6.50pm. It was the last day of this public exhibit, and allowing for the bad weather that afternoon and the overall "deadness" of the town, I was still very surprised to see the event's gates firmly closed for any access.

I realise that they probably wanted to get away for the evening, however I was rather annoyed at not being able to gain any access. Also there were no officials on hand to offer any explanations. I know I should have got down there on Sunday really, but I did feel that this kind of earlier than advertised closure was very unprofessional. If they wanted to close, say ten or fifteen minutes, before the advertised closing times I think that should have also been promoted on their signs.

I find that more and more businesses in this country seem to trade with these lax opening time schedules these days. It somewhat frustrates me as most jobs I have held in the past have been conditional on myself staying over and above the "official" finish times. Not a very good business model here I felt, especially for any long distance "stragglers" like myself.

(Ok, I must admit I felt very lethargic on Monday as I couldn't seem to enthuse anyone else to go along with me that afternoon, but I still believe that was no real excuse for Waterbridge).

Martin

PS Bet this wouldn't happen in the US Jim!

[kevinashe]

just show how good dreamlands previous owners were as louden castle didnt make a profit in its first four or five years under various owners and was even threatened with closure at the end of one of these seasons,obviously theyve turned things around and i may even take a trip down myself