Major fire on the Scenic Railway 7th Apr. Suspected arson.

[Nick]

I have spent the day talking to numerous people about the Scenic and Dreamland and I am have been feeling more positive as the day progresses.

The supportive statement from the Council was a good start, and I agree that security needs to be stepped up immediately to prevent a repeat of this arson attack. I certainly agree with Cllr Ezekiel that the Scenic is the most important piece of cultural heritage in the town. That is why we must stop at nothing to save it.

It appears that almost exactly 25% of the footprint of the ride has been lost. This could be seen clearly from the excellent aerial 'before and after' shot on Meridian News at 6pm this evening. (I hope to have thee images online soon.) We have, of course, also lost the workshops and the trains, and part of the station.

From my telephone conversation with Toby Hunter earlier, they are already making preparations to get engineers on site next week after the police have left. Toby's main concern is whether the damaged sections can be rebuilt without original plans. Well, since that discussion, I have had various conversations with a number of people and it appears that these sections can be rebuilt. The key points are as follows:

1. The structure of the ride is the easiest part. There are a number of companies and engineers that could do that work, and draw up the necessary technical plans. This is not difficult given the extent of structure surviving, the footprint, local knowledge, photos and available plans of similar rides (which I am in the process of securing). Bear in mind that, on a typical year of maintenance, approximately 15% of the ride would be replaced anyway. The people I have spoken to who have been involved in the ride's maintenance and who have worked on other rides are not concerned about this aspect at all. If anybody has any information on the availability of plans, please contact me at the email address above. (As an aside, I have been informed that the pull-ups were the part of the ride most in need of work anyway, so would have to have been replaced in the works required to get the ride operational again).

2. The station was not original and can be easily rebuilt. This can in fact be improved with an arrangement more reminiscent of the original.

3. The workshop was in a very poor state of repair and can be rebuilt.

4. The trains are the biggest problem, as they are the only surviving examples of original Scenic trains (to the best of my knowledge - if I am wrong, please get in touch!) However, a company in Ramsgate that did much of the mechanical work could refabricate the bogies. Something of the original steel bogies will undoubtedly be there in the remains and could be used. In addition, the bogies on the Great Yarmouth Scenic Railway (still operating) are understood to be the same, so these could potentially be used as a template. The beautiful carved wooden upper sections can of course be recreated. This will be the most difficult part, but only one train will be needed initially.

There is a precedent for rebuilds following fires. The Scenic itself has been rebuilt before following a much more devastating fire. Blackpool's Grand National was rebuilt following a fire that destroyed the station, surrounding track and trains in 2004. There are many people who are expert at these types of specialist rebuilds, and those people do not consider the structural element of the Scenic rebuild to be a problem. Remember this is a ride that was effectively completely rebuilt every seven years when operated by the Bembom Brothers!

There is much that still needs to be done, and I will be making several phone calls tomorrow to fill in a few more pieces of the jigsaw, but I am now 99% confident that the damage to the ride can be repaired.

For the time being the most important thing is to stop this from becoming another Brighton West Pier, with a series of further arson attacks. Security at the site must be stepped up to protect this now extremely vulnerable listed building. To put it bluntly: another attack, and I believe all will be lost.

But for now, let's keep positive. My position on this today is: "The Scenic can be rebuilt". Let's get ourselves to the position as quickly as possible where that statement is changed to: "The Scenic will be rebuilt"!

[fadman]

For those of you from out of the area here is a report from ITV
http://www.itvlocal.com/meridian/news/?player=MER_News_15&void=174435

[fadman]

btw am I correct in thinking the original blueprints/plans for the scenic are in a university ( Sheffield I think ) ?

[marc]

a link to Sheffeld

http://www.nfa.dept.shef.ac.uk/

[debfluff]

Hi. Im new to the forum. I had to come post after todays terrible news.
I dont come from Margate. But have very fond memories of when it was a full funfair. With the train that ran around the outside(thats a breif memory)and the little tubs that went around the river. Great times were had by myself and my family. I was gutted when I saw the fire. And I was only saying to my husband the other day its such a shame its sitting there doing nothing. I say get it rebuilt. Get dreamland re opened and get Margate back on its feet. The southeast needs it back.

[erclairedoc]

I went down to the dreamland site this morning before work to see what was left. It was almost unreal standing there seeing the remains. I am however a little happier after reading Nicks earlier post. A re-build now seems very possible and even thought the cars would prove a challenge, I'm sure it can be done. Thanks for keeping us posted Nick. If there is anything that we could be doing to help please say. (eg emailing whoever to show the local support that there is for a rebuild) I'm sure many of us feel a little bit helpless so I would love to do anything that might contribute. I would be happy to give my time to help out in any way. Let's all stay positive and push for increased security on the site!

[bluea61]

Its been a while since I last posted, but I have still been following the Campaign with the same interest. I was very pleased that at least some of the waterchute could be saved.

Anyway as everyone has said am really gutted about whats happened and was in a state of shock yesterday.

There are few similar Scenics operaing around the world. Not sure how similar they are but the trains look like the Dreamland ones.

Luna Park, Australia - http://www.lunapark.com.au/scenic_railway.html although better pictures at the RCDB http://www.rcdb.com/id1136.htm

Vidámpark, Hungary -
http://www.vidampark.hu and good pics at RCDB http://www.rcdb.com/id1086.htm

Parque de Atracciones de Igueldo, Spain - http://www.monteigueldo.es/eng/atracciones/ficha_01.html and RCDB http://www.rcdb.com/id1449.htm

[erclairedoc]

Sorry if I'm asking a question that's already been answered but were any of the other rides (for the heritage site) stored near the railway and therefore destroyed too?

[jools]

I have been down there today, and really cried. My family had the Upper Deck cafe in the early Bemboms days and I have so many fond memories of the Scenic. If one good thing can come out of all this then its that we all finally get togther and do something about it, because lets face it the council won't.

[kevinashe]

nick has thanet council, english heritage or local buisnesses pledged any money to rebuild the damaged sections also in a previous post it says that small juv rides have also been lost are these very rare or replacable and was all the southport stuff and the chutes from rhyl okay

[queenntty]

Hi there i have been sitting here for the past 2 nights reading post from a few sites and think much the same as most of you all,

As a normal person by that i mean someone who is not a builder or planner am i perhaps just a little bit right in thinking that the blueprints are not 100% needed like the TDC are making out to rebuild it i am sure there must be plenty of film clips photo`s and even some one who could work out the way this was built,
If not there must be a nice company or person who could perhaps help draw up new blueprints so it WILL be restored again
i am also a local person who grow up in thanet and now my Grandson will visit and hopefully see it back to its best state.
Also will the right person be called to account for his actions {not the poor buggers he made and paid them to do it }

[EAS]

Nick - anything can be rebuilt, given the time and cash - and a will.

There are of course the people still around who can carry out the work - much as we love it, it's not actually that complex a structure.

The workshop may have gone and the station, but they are not particularly important - although technically possibly the station is part of the listing, not an important part - and indeed, although important operationally, the trains are not really 'important' either in as much as they cannot really be considered part of what is listed. They were not attached as 'fixtures'.

So the track, its plan and its history are what is important - and maybe really, as we tried to argue with Cyclone, 'historic fabric' isn't what counts either in a ride which has to be constantly repaired. It's all a bit outside the box as far as EH and listing is concerned, but let's not forget St Paul's Cathedral and the Houses of Parliament were both damaged by bombs in the last war - and they were repaired and listed post-war when listing began.

From Pastscape site:

The rollercoaster was restored after fires in 1949 and 1957 and has had a regular repair programme but retains its original form.

This may seem an odd point of view to some, but those involved with historic buildinngs and listing and conservation will understand.

This is the official listing description:

Listed Buildings Online |

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Building Name: The Scenic Railway Dreamland
Parish: Margate
District: Thanet
County: Kent
Postcode:
LBS Number: 488465
Grade: II
Date Listed: 01 March 2002
Date of Last Amendment: 03 August 2005

National Grid Reference: TR3510170538

Listing Text:


TR3570NW BELGRAVE ROAD
878/1/10021 (West,off)
01-MAR-02 The Scenic Railway, Dreamland

GV II


Rollercoaster. 1919-1920, restored after fires in 1949 and 1957. Developed by John Henry Iles, who bought the European rights for the Scenic Railway from Coney Island, New York, whence he imported some of the moving parts. Timber lattice structure supporting double loop of iron tracks, with pulleys and endless steel rope to two haulage slopes; the trackway sunk between railed walkways for a stable ride and sharper bends. Two trains, each of three permanently linked cars with brakeman, one of only two rides in England with a train controlled by a brakeman riding on the vehicle (the other is that of 1932 at Great Yarmouth.

This is the oldest surviving rollercoaster in Great Britain, and one of just two examples of a surviving Scenic Railway. Although repaired after fires and regularly maintained, with a repair programme of new planking each spring, the form of the ride is the original. The only rollercoaster in Europe known to be older is that at the Tivoli Gardens, Copenhagen, of c.1914, which this closely resembles.

Source
Kent Journal of the County Society, no.235, Spring 1986

The events of yesterday are all part of the history.

[uvegotmale2000]

wonderful news nick,very encouraging news

With regards to other peoples questions."was other rides stored there"? i.e king solomons mines etc,i do believe these are stored at a warehouse offsite NOT at dreamland itself

[dave771]

As I am sure you can all understand the last 24hrs have been very hectic for Nick, Sarah, Susan and myself, Without going into details I can confirm that the Southport rides and Water Chute parts are still in the same condition as they were when we acquired them.

[EAS]

Thanks - that's a relief!