Major fire on the Scenic Railway 7th Apr. Suspected arson.

[Geoffers]

I think EAS is spot on in quoting history, and if a certain person does also own that pier, then it teaches us even more of what happened the oher week.

No disrespect to Paul, but those of us who have been tracking this over the years, and also tracking th terrible mis haps a certain person has with fire, will understand the significance of the Brighton story.

To know your foe, is to know their past, is all EAS is driving at.

[EAS]

There are a number of interesting parallells too - such as enabling development, which was very much a cause for disputes and dissent:

It is important to recognise the division between those
commentators who accept that the restoration of the West Pier cannot happen without the
enabling development (ie those concerned about the details of the design) and those who
think that an enabling development of the necessary scale is too high a price to pay for the
restoration of the pier. We expect a very lively debate once the planning application is
submitted; and hope that most members will support the application.

However, it all ended in tears, although there is the 'Brighton Eye' to come instead.

Good to note that the Officer's Report for this evening's Thanet meeting re-iterates that any development on the Dreamland site has to be 'enabling'.

[thanet26294]

On the radio this morning the leader of TDC said that Council officials will issue a special notice to the owners of the Grade 2 listed wooden rollercoaster, ordering them to fully restore and repair the structure. He also added this was something "not done very often, but had to be done". Have the owners of Dreamland indicated that they do not plan to rebuild then?

[EAS]

Not as far as I am aware, but this is belt and braces I think... the proposed order covers the cinema and other parts of the site too.

It's worth reading the report though.

http://www.joylandbooks.com/scenicrailw ... 642008.doc

http://www.joylandbooks.com/scenicrailw ... ionMap.jpg

Thanet District Council produced a planning brief for the Dreamland site during the course of 2007. The brief was subject to extensive public consultation as well as consultation with the owners and members of the ‘Save Dreamland’ campaign. The brief was adopted as supplementary planning guidance by Thanet District Council’s Full Council at their meeting of 21st February 2008. The brief gives guidance on an acceptable future for the site in accordance with Policy T8 of the Thanet Local Plan. In broad terms, the document proposes that at least 50% of the site, including the listed structures, should remain in an amusement use. Outside of this area, provision is to be made for the parking of 250 vehicles. Development on the remainder of the site should be seen as ‘enabling’ – providing funds towards the restoration of the cinema complex and the repair conservation and operation of the Scenic Railway so that it is in, and remains in, operational condition.

[cliffc]

Maybe its worth more in insurance than a viable structure...............

Hi the West Pier in brighton is owed by the west pier trust since 1978

http://www.westpier.co.uk/

So it would seem Mr G has no connection with this pier at all unless he is one of the trusties.

And the other pier Brighton Pier is owned by the North East base comapny the Noble Organiseation this is a Family owned company with no connections as far as I know to Mr G.


Cliff Cook

[EAS]

I have no idea of any involvement - it was something raised in the link I posted.

I don't think that it's quite as clear cut as a Trust - I think that there was a development company involved also.

However - as Nick said last week - we don't want a similar scenario at Dreamland. Let's hope the site is now secure and there are no more fires at Margate.

[cliffc]

Can we be realistic though? I wouldn't believe every news report. Last week's news reports had the Scenic razed to the ground.

Council officers said: “It is considered reasonable to expect that the ride might be repaired and operational by Easter 2009”.

Next Easter is a very short space of time away to get repairs done and the Scenic running. It may be possible to run it as a stand alone attraction, but as far as a full amusement park...

It will very much depend on so many imponderables. To which at this time there are few certainties.

Insurers, funding, plans, Listed Building Consents, consultations, whether or not the council in the end has to carry the repairs notice to the ultimate...

Hi

If all of the paperwork could be completed there is no rreason why the park could not open some of the rides are in safe storeage ( i hope certian parties dont know there location dont want more fires in Margate or the surrounding areas), and thease could be transported to the site and be up and running in no time, as most of the current saved rides were indeed built to be portable, the water chute would take longer as this would need to built from scratch and this takes longer, but if the powers that be moved quick enough there is no reason that a stage 1 heratige park could not be ready to be operational by next Easter.

The section of the scenic could be rebuilt in this time i am sure again though it would need work to start sooner rather than later to acheve this, another factor will be the weather good weather both during the summer and winter would help this no end, but one thing in our favor is that as Easter will be in the more tradtional month of April next year we have almost a full year to do this.

So my take on this it wont be an easy but the scenic could most certinly be open next easter as could some of the other heratige rides.

Cliff c

[EAS]

I am looking at the bigger picture than simply the physical idea of the park.

There's a vast amount of planning and legal funding stuff which would need to be gone through first - and small details such as who will actually run such a park.

I also point out that few rides saved are in anything like complete but dismantled condition. It's not quite as simple as re-erection.

[cliffc]

I have no idea of any involvement - it was something raised in the link I posted.

I don't think that it's quite as clear cut as a Trust - I think that there was a development company involved also.

However - as Nick said last week - we don't want a similar scenario at Dreamland. Let's hope the site is now secure and there are no more fires at Margate.

From looking at the site the devlopement company i think are involves in the project to build the I360 which is going on the land at the pier entrance or close there to as far as i can see from the trusts web site, but the actual pier and all rights that go with that are in the sole ownership of the trust as stated on there web site.

Cliff C

[EAS]

That's the latest development, now that the pier restoration (and enabling development on the sea front of shops and cafes) has been discarded. That's in conjunction with the private sector too.

But as the post on the linked site is an old one, it's a bit late to seek more information from the poster. The other fires which Mr G has been involved with are detailed again there.

The Scenic is the latest.

[cliffc]

I am looking at the bigger picture than simply the physical idea of the park.

There's a vast amount of planning and legal funding stuff which would need to be gone through first - and small details such as who will actually run such a park.

Hi

As said in my reply it would need a concerted effort of all the partys invlolved to speed up the paperwork to get the requred pemissions in place, I will conceed going on the past this will be harder than the actual rebuilding of the scenic, as we are looking a year ahead the work could be started potential operators could be sort during the year while the rest of the work was being done.

Cliff C

[EAS]

This is not, believe me, so simple.

I understand the site owners are not intending to even submit plans until late 2008. Then any plans will have to go out for public consultation, and also statutory consultees. Those wll have to be looked at in detail, officers will have to write reports, and then placed on a Planning Committee agenda for debate. It's a large development and this all takes time.

Then there will have to be time laid aside in case any objectors wish to seek Judicial Review or the Secretary of State seeks a call in and a Public Inquiry.

What happens next is anyone's guess - including if a Repairs Notice has to be enforced, or indeed if it is challenged. See the Officer's Report for more details.

There is the cinema too, which other parties will have an interest in seeing re-used in a sensitive manner, and all development on site has to be 'enabling'. A viable development is what is required.

It's not really something which can be rushed, the democratic process.

[Becks045]

I am so sad about the scenic railway, a peice of history destroyed by mindless thugs who care only for their own benefit.

However I really can't see anything happening on the site for years yet. There is no way the scenic will be running next year.

Margate can't even sort out the Turner gallery, the high street is empty and boarded up so the chances with the complicated process based around Dreamland, of anything happening is about as likely as Margate becoming somewhere, where people want to live!!

[EAS]

We have no idea as yet who carried out the arson attack - mindless, thugs, or whoever. No idea who may or may not benefit from the fire.

Margate (Thanet?) isn't responsible for the Turner - that's driven by Kent County Council and others, 'supported' by Thanet. That seems pretty sorted out now to me? Final permissions are in place, funding in place, presumably development partners are being sought for the building works. The boarding up of shops in the high street has nothing to do with the planning processes of Dreamland.

What happens with the repair of the Scenic is, at the moment, rather anyone's guess, but if no plans are in place by the owners, then Thanet is taking steps to ensure that repairs are carried out. Again, that's due democratic process, which is being followed. The first steps are on the agenda of tonight's planning meeting. It won't be rapid, but the fire was only last week.

On the News page is the report by Jacobs engineers for the owners regarding work required to support the structure temporarily.

I think what's important is getting all the details right, ensuring that there is a viable and acceptable scheme in place for both an amusement park and the re-use of the cinema, with enabling development plans in place to ensure the long term financial future of both is secure.

Given that the Planning Brief was only finally adopted in February, then clearly the site owner and architect have a great deal of work to do, in conjunction with interested parties, to present sound plans for consideration for the formal planning process. When that is completed, then there will have to be tenders for contracts etc. So no, it won't be rapid, but it's not 'Margate's' fault.

People do seem to live there though.

[smilerbaker]

just read through the various council notices etc, and one thing strikes me, could this all have been a setup?

The council issuing repair notices with a view to a CP order, which of course has to give 'market value', the ride was not that badly damaged eg other properties that have been in the way have been totaly destroyed.

The sale falling through last year, property prices falling, westwood opening, etc etc would all adversly affect the land price of dreamland.

Could a CP be EXACTLY what the owners wanted all along?? Add in a couple of willing councilers who agree the site is worth xx million? (as prime development land )

And finally, did we really land on the moon??