Waiting for a report?

[Nick]

As far as I know only the Scenic Railway has listed Building status so only anything within the curtilage of the ride is in any case protected.

I just wanted to point out that the curtilage of the Scenic Railway is the amusement park. Any building built after 1920 and before 1948 within Dreamland is therefore listed. Have a look at the book Dreamland Remembered (http://www.joylandbooks.com/books_new/dreamlandremembered.htm) to see how many buildings within Dreamland were there pre-1948.

In addition, any structure that is physically attached to the Scenic Railway and the Cinema building - both of which are listed - are also listed themselves, regardless of age. So the amusement arcades, Scenic workshops, cafe, etc, are all listed as well.

Nick

[porterm]

Hello Dave and all,

I concur with your comments fully. I spoke to Nick Laister earlier this evening regarding the mentioned Dreamland building(s) proposed demolitions. Hopefully the locals will keep their eyes peeled and report any suspicious activities to the relevant authorities asap. (If only we had a park webcam).

I also fully endorse Susan's comments in remaining positive as we hopefully only have a couple of weeks to wait now before the full Independent Inspector's Report is released.

Martin

[Bob]

As far as I know only the Scenic Railway has listed Building status so only anything within the curtilage of the ride is in any case protected.

I just wanted to point out that the curtilage of the Scenic Railway is the amusement park. Any building built after 1920 and before 1948 within Dreamland is therefore listed. Have a look at the book Dreamland Remembered (http://www.joylandbooks.com/books_new/dreamlandremembered.htm) to see how many buildings within Dreamland were there pre-1948.

In addition, any structure that is physically attached to the Scenic Railway and the Cinema building - both of which are listed - are also listed themselves, regardless of age. So the amusement arcades, Scenic workshops, cafe, etc, are all listed as well.

Nick

I think you are misinterpretting the Listed Buildings Regulations. Yes any Structure physically connected to the ride and any immediate area around it such as fencing could be included but it would not extend beyond that. The ride is only Grade II listed as well. There is nothing else in the grounds that would even merit listing.

[dave771]

For Bobs benefit, please read the following which can be found on the press page of this site,

Nick Laister BA (Hons) DipTP MRTPI MIHT MIPI is a planning consultant and a leading authority on the UK theme park industry.
He is a Chartered Town Planner and Technical Director with the RPS Group plc, and specialises in planning for tourism and leisure. He is involved in the promotion of major development projects around the UK and Ireland, and has appeared as expert witness at several public inquiries and hearings. He has written articles for a number of newspapers and journals and has been invited to speak at conferences on the subject of planning for tourism and leisure. Nick is also partner in specialist publishers Skelter Publishing and editor of the web site www.joylandbooks.com.

I do feel that Nick has more than enough knowledge in this field to know what hes talking about!

[Bob]

For Bobs benefit, please read the following which can be found on the press page of this site,

Nick Laister BA (Hons) DipTP MRTPI MIHT MIPI is a planning consultant and a leading authority on the UK theme park industry.
He is a Chartered Town Planner and Technical Director with the RPS Group plc, and specialises in planning for tourism and leisure. He is involved in the promotion of major development projects around the UK and Ireland, and has appeared as expert witness at several public inquiries and hearings. He has written articles for a number of newspapers and journals and has been invited to speak at conferences on the subject of planning for tourism and leisure. Nick is also partner in specialist publishers Skelter Publishing and editor of the web site www.joylandbooks.com.

I do feel that Nick has more than enough knowledge in this field to know what hes talking about!

Then he should know better. If you think Grade II listing of the Scenic Railway means the entire area of Dreamland is protect then you are sadly deluded. The Grade II listing does not mean that at all. There can be an element of interpretation in to how far the curtilage of the ride extends but that the limit of it. You would be very hard pushed to find anything else in Dreamland that has an architectural merit or historical significance. In fact very little of the original Dreamland remains.

In fact the only hope for Dreamland to survive is to use some of the site for other purposes and various plans have already been submitted by other parties. You do not need to own the land to put in planning applications for the site

[Susan]

I find your response somewhat arrogant and would suggest before you make such sweeping statements or call into question professionalism and knowledge you actually make sure you know the facts.
Whether you consider buildings are of architectural or historical merit is neither here nor there.
Clearly you are not prepared to believe anything that is explained on this forum so I suggest you take yourself along to the Thanet District Council offices at Cecil square and discuss the matter with the relevant officer. He, I am sure, will explain the effect of the introduction of the Town and Country Planning Act and if you treat him with a little more respect than you are Nick he might even show you the plan which clearly indicates there are buildings on the Dreamland site, not directly attached / connected to the Scenic that are covered by the listed status.
When you have done that maybe you will come back on here and post an apology

[dave771]

Thanks for responding to Bob Susan, Have decided not to continue his arguements as there are much more important things to do for the campaign at the moment, one thing that does confuse me is that no one knows who Bob is but seems to have so much knowledge? Anyway wont say what I really wanted to as Nick will quite understandably delete or edit my post, im sure you know what I mean though!

Dave

[Sarah]

Lord of mercy, as if this Campaign isn't tough enough already...

As Susan says, any structure on the site that pre-dates 1 July 1948 is covered by the listing. End of.

With all due respect (actually, not a great deal is due) Nick has forgotten more about planning issues than you or I will ever learn. He DOES know better and that knowledge has done wonders for this Campaign.

If you look over your shoulder Bob, you'll see a vertical stripe on the floor; that'll the line you just crossed. This will be the last time I bother replying to any of your posts.

Sarah

[Bob]

Lord of mercy, as if this Campaign isn't tough enough already...

As Susan says, any structure on the site that pre-dates 1 July 1948 is covered by the listing. End of.

With all due respect (actually, not a great deal is due) Nick has forgotten more about planning issues than you or I will ever learn. He DOES know better and that knowledge has done wonders for this Campaign.

If you look over your shoulder Bob, you'll see a vertical stripe on the floor; that'll the line you just crossed. This will be the last time I bother replying to any of your posts.

Sarah

If you along with the others wish to delude youself that the whole Dreamland site is listed please feel free to continue to live in cloud cukoo land. If you really want to save Dreamland you need to be realistic about what can be achieved and what Grade II listing really means.

There is no substance at all to pre 1948 buildings being automatically protected. The boundaries of a Listed Building will be broadly described with the actually listing and you will if you bother to inspect them see that they do not extend to the entire site but only the Scenic Railway.

[jmace9]

Lord of mercy, as if this Campaign isn't tough enough already...

As Susan says, any structure on the site that pre-dates 1 July 1948 is covered by the listing. End of.

With all due respect (actually, not a great deal is due) Nick has forgotten more about planning issues than you or I will ever learn. He DOES know better and that knowledge has done wonders for this Campaign.

If you look over your shoulder Bob, you'll see a vertical stripe on the floor; that'll the line you just crossed. This will be the last time I bother replying to any of your posts.

Sarah

If you along with the others wish to delude youself that the whole Dreamland site is listed please feel free to continue to live in cloud cukoo land. If you really want to save Dreamland you need to be realistic about what can be achieved and what Grade II listing really means.

There is no substance at all to pre 1948 buildings being automatically protected. The boundaries of a Listed Building will be broadly described with the actually listing and you will if you bother to inspect them see that they do not extend to the entire site but only the Scenic Railway.

Bob why do you belong to the Save the dreamland campaign ? From what i can make of it you have no intrest in the future of the park and you are certainly doing the campaign no jutice with your posting's on this site.

Can you Please start giving Nick your backing.

Thanks

John

[David Ellis]

I do not often post on here, but I do read the forum on a daily basis. I feel I must comment on the recent posts by Bob and the subsequent discussions.

We really don't need in-fighting on this forum. This forum was set-up by Nick for the positive use by all of us who are strongly in support of the campaign, and also in support of the efforts that Nick, Sarah and others have made to the cause.

Bob - If you really are speaking from a position of informed knowledge on this, please can you be good enough to inform the campaign who you are, and in what capacity you speak. Are you a planning professional? Are you from Margate? Are you a local Council Member, or businessman?

At least if we could understand from where you are coming from we all might be more sympathetic to your comments. We need to be as one voice to have a credible stake in the future of the park and Scenic. In-fighting will only damage our combined efforts.

David.

[RowBot]

well wait I will Havn't had much time to look around here lately since got 4 assignments at college and im organising a fun day (World Chidren's Day) at work

[vince69619]

Dave, does Bob have knowledge, or is he just sounding off? Anyone can scream back at you in an argument, my wife has it down to a fine art.

I agree with David, time for Bob to tell us who he is, what his connections are, and why he's on this forum.

Personally I only make statements like Bob's when I know I am right, so if I say I don't know, then I don't, and if I say I do, then I do!

His answer, or lack of, will tell us if he knows what he's talking about.

Vince.

[Dave H.]

Maybe Bob is one of J.G's "Men"??

[vince69619]

Well with no reply from Bob in almost a week, you could well be right. The possibility of Bob being involved with Jimmy Godden has been raised before on the forum.

Vince.