Dreamland, Amusment park or not?

[David Ellis]

Philip Miller has made no specific bid for Dreamland. He may have expressed a general interest but thats a million miles away from a firm detailed offer. Only time will tell if anyone is prepared to buy the site at the full market rate and run it as a 100% Amusement park. I think I have made my views clear on the viability of that.

It depends on what you describe as "full market rate"...if this is the market rate for land in existing amusement park use, then Nick has already confirmed Mr Miller's interest...however if this is market rate for use as development land, then no park operator anywhere with any financial sense will be putting in that offer!

It seems that all your strong statements you made earlier (to which I asked you to provide supporting evidence) are merely supposition on your part. You obviously have no evidence of other parks receiving subsidy, and no reason to justify why Dreamland would need it to survive, just your (often repeated) personal views on how you see the future of theme parks.

Your earlier statements arguing the case for not retaining Dreamland due to Council Tax implications are a complete red herring. You are trying to put your case forward on the basis of the facts as you see them, but increasingly these "facts" appear to be just your opinion. I am sure this Forum welcomes opinions from both sides of the fence, but we need to be clear on what is fact and what is opinion.

I suggest that if you are making statements of fact then please be courteous enough to support them with evidence, and if you are making personal speculation then please make it crystal clear that is the basis of your comments...try not to dress up your own supposition as statements of fact.

As a minor point, please be careful when quoting others not to insert your comments in the middle of their quote...your response to my earlier questions were presented as part of my quote. If you are replying to two or more quotes, use separate "quote" and "end-quote" marks for each one.

David.

[Nick]

Philip Miller has made no specific bid for Dreamland. He may have expressed a general interest but thats a million miles away from a firm detailed offer.

There is only so much I can say here without betraying trust as Philip has taken me into his confidence but you are wrong. Philip has made a firm offer for the site.

Only time will tell if anyone is prepared to buy the site at the full market rate and run it as a 100% Amusement park. I think I have made my views clear on the viability of that.

As have we. If the "full market rate" you are talking about is the full market rate for an amusement park, then Dreamland can be run as a 100% amusement park. But, as David Ellis said, if you are talking about the sort of market values that are associated with retail and residential (i.e. the sort of values that the independent inspector was unhappy with) then, of course not. The Council seemed oblivious to this point at the Inquiry, but it is really quite a simple point!

I am aware of several other UK amusement parks that will close or are very likely to close over the next few years.

So am I. But there is a reason for all of them. If you want to throw some at me, I will tell you exactly why they are at risk/have closed. Some are for the same reasons as Dreamland. Some are for other reasons.

Even probably the most famous of all Blackpool is finding the going very tough with visitor numbers falling. Its in no danger of closing but it is scalling back the business.

That is not true. Visitor numbers at Pleasure Beach have dropped slightly (as they have at most parks), but the business is actually more profitable now than it was 10 years ago. The business has changed, but is not being scaled back. In fact, they have some major investments planned in the near future. Amusement parks have to change to survive, and those that are changing are reaping the rewards. Pleasure Beach is one of them.

It is now in the Uk almost impossible to run an Amusement Business in the UK at a profit or at least a reasonable ROI.

Interesting that you say that. Pay a vist to Companies House and have a look at the accounts of some well-run "amusement businesses". Try Adventure Island. Or Flamingo Land. Or Drayton Manor. Or Great Yarmouth Pleasure Beach. Some of these places are making profit margins that even businesses from the consultancy sector (in which I work) would be envious!

Generally, the parks in the major resorts (Blackpool, Great Yarmouth, Brighton, Southend, etc) are booming. I put Margate in that category, as does Philip Miller. Those in the smaller resorts are finding it more difficult. But the same goes for the inland theme parks. Those in good locations that invest are booming. Those in poor locations or those that have seen little investment, are not.

I agree with Philip Miller and the Inspector - with a good quality, established operator running it properly, Dreamland will be a great success and will benefit Margate as a whole.

Nick

[uvegotmale2000]

why do people waste their valuable time on bob?if anyone thinks he is connected to jimmy godden u must be mad lol
the comments he comes out with make as much sense as a chocolate teapot!!

and some people think he is jimmy godden,come on can you honestly see him posting comments on here.he doesnt give a stuff about dreamland as you are all well aware.
the comments he comes out with make as much sense as a chocolate teapot!!

the guy only wants to wind you all up and annoy u.ive given up reading his comments which are 99.9% are ridiculous and false
dont waste your valuable time on him,save your fingers

the best thing to do is listen and read the valuable comments nick writes,at least you know he tells us the truth and dedicated on saving dreamland
happy xmas to all

[Bob]

why do people waste their valuable time on bob?if anyone thinks he is connected to jimmy godden u must be mad lol
the comments he comes out with make as much sense as a chocolate teapot!!

and some people think he is jimmy godden,come on can you honestly see him posting comments on here.he doesnt give a stuff about dreamland as you are all well aware.
the comments he comes out with make as much sense as a chocolate teapot!!

the guy only wants to wind you all up and annoy u.ive given up reading his comments which are 99.9% are ridiculous and false
dont waste your valuable time on him,save your fingers

the best thing to do is listen and read the valuable comments nick writes,at least you know he tells us the truth and dedicated on saving dreamland
happy xmas to all

Why would he not be intereted in Dreamland ? A businesman is in Business to make money for the Business and shareholders. There is as well a stautary legal duty to act in the best interests of the shareholders of a company.

[cliffc]

why do people waste their valuable time on bob?if anyone thinks he is connected to jimmy godden u must be mad lol
the comments he comes out with make as much sense as a chocolate teapot!!

and some people think he is jimmy godden,come on can you honestly see him posting comments on here.he doesnt give a stuff about dreamland as you are all well aware.
the comments he comes out with make as much sense as a chocolate teapot!!

the guy only wants to wind you all up and annoy u.ive given up reading his comments which are 99.9% are ridiculous and false
dont waste your valuable time on him,save your fingers

the best thing to do is listen and read the valuable comments nick writes,at least you know he tells us the truth and dedicated on saving dreamland
happy xmas to all :D

Why would he not be intereted in Dreamland ? A businesman is in Business to make money for the Business and shareholders. There is as well a stautary legal duty to act in the best interests of the shareholders of a company.

Hi all again

Well Bob i think any buisness regardless of if its a PLC with large numbers of shareholders or a buisness run by one man and his dog are in it to make money.
Now from what Nick & Sarah have both posted on here I think we can assume that Phillp Miller is an astute and successful buisnessman whos current ventures are makeing him and his company profits, therefore I would think if he wants to add the Dreamland site to this buisness then he is confident that this venture will also make a profit.
As to your statement about the Save Dreamland campigin now being more of an problem than a help i think this is just whisfull thinking on your or Jimmys part, because as we all know if it had not been for Save Dreamland the whole place would now be flattend to make way for houses and a new hypermarket and you er sorry i mean Jimmy would be counting all the profits he had made, insted he is now worried that the council will say that the site must remain an amusement park and he will then either have to sell the site at the going rate to a commited operator or god forbid run the park himself, and from the recent past i dont think thats something he is able to do. In fact from recent examples i don think hes able to run a Pi** up in a brewery.

Cliff C

[Gary]

Bob, I believe like many others here in the right for you to have your say..Besides, in my opinion, it's what make great message boards like this tick..

But you know your comments on these boards do leave me confused sometimes...I'm not sure what your real beliefs and motives are..Compare your recent posts about Dreamland with this one from some time back..

http://www.joylandbooks.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?t=611

I'm just intrigued that's all.

Gary