Dreamland Leisure

[vince69619]

RB, let me explain this for you.

We are meddling out of towners, because we want to come to Margate and spend money in the Dreamland Amusement Park.

This MEDDLES with the plan to show that the park is not viable, and MEDDLES with the profit/loss account by making it look better. This is apparently a bad thing!

Vince.

[Bob]

RB, let me explain this for you.

We are meddling out of towners, because we want to come to Margate and spend money in the Dreamland Amusement Park.

This MEDDLES with the plan to show that the park is not viable, and MEDDLES with the profit/loss account by making it look better. This is apparently a bad thing!

Vince.

I think Nick Laister sums up very well why Dreamland cannot succeed. So there we are we have it straight from the mouth of one of the "Save Drealand Campaigners" leaders



"Due to changes in taste, economics and available choice, the decline in the British seaside resort has not only been sad to behold but also rapid.

Most of our amusement park heritage is beside the sea. No amount of rose tinted spectacles can hide the fact that many of our seaside resorts are now merely faded relics of days gone by. Days when workers flocked to the seaside in their thousands. What we are left with in many of these towns is infrastructure far too large and expensive to be justified by the comparatively small numbers of visitors that now visit many of our resorts. This infrastructure includes the amusement parks. "

[vince69619]

More of the usual from Bob. Opinions and no facts.

And in what way is the posting a reply to mine for RB? Not a single reference to the posting!

[Bob]

More of the usual from Bob. Opinions and no facts.

And in what way is the posting a reply to mine for RB? Not a single reference to the posting!

They are statements of fact

[DaveD]

There are always heydays in any interest - you could just about apply that to anything. Look at Doctor Who for instance; rubbished, ridiculed, off the screen for 15 years and now watched by 10 million viewers. The BBC argued for years that they didn't have the budget for such a series but are now making potloads of hard cash from an idea originating from the 1960's.

The fact remains is that while a certain fad may decrease or increase in popularity, there will always be a certain following. It's maintaining that following that is important and the few remaining seaside Fun Fairs will thrive in years to come because of their individualism and people will make money as a result. People travel great distances for something different to offer them from the humdrum, carrier-bag world that seems to be suffocating us more vigourously each day.

Take the Pleasure Beach away from Blackpool and we will see the town turn into the way Margate is now. It's that simple.

[Sarah]

To return to RowBot's point about the "meddling out of towners" comment: now, I wouldn't normally leap to Toby Hunter's defence, but he didn't actually say this. His quotes changed slightly in subsequent issues of the Gazette but he either said:

"What we don't want, though, is for this activity to be dominated by the vocal minority who probably don't even live in Margate. We want to encourage the more thoughtful majority to air long-term proposals."

If you read the Gazette on 19 Feb, or:

“What we don't want, though, is for this activity to be dominated by the vocal minority (who probably don't even live in Margate) but to encourage the more thoughtful majority to air long-term proposals for Margate and Dreamland.”

If you read the Gazette on 24 Feb (whether he tinkered with his statement, or the Gazette took it upon themselves to re-write it, we will never know).

The phrase "meddling out of towners" is the creation of the Gazette, a headline designed to grab your attention and provoke a reaction. While their subs don't have the style of the News of the World's banner writers, they've certainly succeeded on both counts here.

Sorry to be pedantic, but Hunter has made enough comments for us to take issue with - we don't need to be putting words in his mouth.

Sarah

[Bob]

To return to RowBot's point about the "meddling out of towners" comment: now, I wouldn't normally leap to Toby Hunter's defence, but he didn't actually say this. His quotes changed slightly in subsequent issues of the Gazette but he either said:

"What we don't want, though, is for this activity to be dominated by the vocal minority who probably don't even live in Margate. We want to encourage the more thoughtful majority to air long-term proposals."

If you read the Gazette on 19 Feb, or:

“What we don't want, though, is for this activity to be dominated by the vocal minority (who probably don't even live in Margate) but to encourage the more thoughtful majority to air long-term proposals for Margate and Dreamland.”

If you read the Gazette on 24 Feb (whether he tinkered with his statement, or the Gazette took it upon themselves to re-write it, we will never know).

The phrase "meddling out of towners" is the creation of the Gazette, a headline designed to grab your attention and provoke a reaction. While their subs don't have the style of the News of the World's banner writers, they've certainly succeeded on both counts here.

Sorry to be pedantic, but Hunter has made enough comments for us to take issue with - we don't need to be putting words in his mouth.

Sarah

I think Nick Laister sums up the situation with Dreamland very well. Although I would disagee with his comment of the decline being rapid. The decline set in from about the mid 1960's

"Due to changes in taste, economics and available choice, the decline in the British seaside resort has not only been sad to behold but also rapid.

Most of our amusement park heritage is beside the sea. No amount of rose tinted spectacles can hide the fact that many of our seaside resorts are now merely faded relics of days gone by. Days when workers flocked to the seaside in their thousands. What we are left with in many of these towns is infrastructure far too large and expensive to be justified by the comparatively small numbers of visitors that now visit many of our resorts. This infrastructure includes the amusement parks. "

[Nick]

I think Nick Laister sums up the situation with Dreamland very well. Although I would disagee with his comment of the decline being rapid. The decline set in from about the mid 1960's

"Due to changes in taste, economics and available choice, the decline in the British seaside resort has not only been sad to behold but also rapid.

Most of our amusement park heritage is beside the sea. No amount of rose tinted spectacles can hide the fact that many of our seaside resorts are now merely faded relics of days gone by. Days when workers flocked to the seaside in their thousands. What we are left with in many of these towns is infrastructure far too large and expensive to be justified by the comparatively small numbers of visitors that now visit many of our resorts. This infrastructure includes the amusement parks. "

Glad to see you have been searching the net for my work. At least I know that one person is reading it! That is a quote from an article I wrote five years ago to publicise an exhibition I was holding in summer 2001.

Believe me, the decline of some resorts has been very rapid. If you visited Morecambe between 1996 and 2000, you would have seen most of its major attractions close. That is what has been called by the North West Development Agency "catastrophic collapse".

Of course, there are just as many resorts that have seen growth and regeneration. Southend and Southport are two good examples, but if you look at the stats, you will see that many resorts are now on the way up in terms of visitors and employment. Another recent phenomenon, which I can't fully explain (yet) is the increase in overnight stays at many seaside resorts, as opposed to day visitors.

I am involved in several seaside regeneration projects around the UK, and I have learnt (since writing that article) that the various forces that are causing resorts to change are complex. The throwaway comments I made in that article are a vast oversimplification of the situation. I do think that I now understand Margate better than most resorts. I am convinced that if it there is a proper investment in its amusement park, there will be a transformational change to the seafront. That will bring about a wider regeneration of the town, unleashing private sector investment in other facilities for the town's visitors.

Nick

[cliffc]

Hi

I see Bob has been speaking out of his rear orifice again, as some one who used to holiday in Blackpool in the summer as a child in the 60's and early 70's, I can say that times have changed the days of the holiday maker who stays for a week have in the main long gone, but there are many people who still stay in seaside places like Blackpool either as an over night (Stag and Hen may account for this in Blackpool), or may be even go for a few nights mid week we do this once a year and we also day visit once or twice, and when we do there are allways plenty of people round and thay all seem to spending. The the almost 5.75 million visitor's to BPB last year is a number not to be dismissed and i would expect this number to rise this year as I beleve thay have a new ride opening (i am not 100% sure of this), but with that many visitors one even if your average spend per visitor is only £5 that amounts to a signifiacant income, I would agree that the traditional british seaside holiday is on the decrease, however I beleve that in many resorts round the country the numbers of visitors is on the up may be only slowly but it is happening.
However if Margate is to get visitors it needs something to bring them there, as Nick has pointed out in his posts the Casino developement in Blackpool is an additional attraction, the Tower, Winter Gardens nor the Pleasure Beach or indeed any other attraction is having to be demolished for this to happen, therefore its goning to bring more visitors to the town, now obviously a percentage of them will be comming just for the Gambling on offer, but most visitors will also leave the casino and visit the many other attractions on offer, thay can do this because such attractions are there, if some one visits Margate and there is no Dreamland what can thay do other than visit the wonderful Shell Grotto and the new art gallery nothing, and with the best will in the world a Family with Kids does not want to sit on the beach all day, thay want somewhere thay can have a little fun and possible a little controled scareing, and the amusment park is where thay head, you need amusement arcades too, and when i visited there were not that many of them either i think i counted 3 along he front and there was the one in Dreamland and the one on the walk along into the park this was 3 years ago in Mid August , there even then there were many people about but with little to ride on allthough the scenic was getting many riders on, Margate needs Dreamland to be 100% amusment park with a good varied slection of rides to cater for all ages of visitor.

Cliff c

[Bob]

Hi

I see Bob has been speaking out of his rear orifice again, as some one who used to holiday in Blackpool in the summer as a child in the 60's and early 70's, I can say that times have changed the days of the holiday maker who stays for a week have in the main long gone, but there are many people who still stay in seaside places like Blackpool either as an over night (Stag and Hen may account for this in Blackpool), or may be even go for a few nights mid week we do this once a year and we also day visit once or twice, and when we do there are allways plenty of people round and thay all seem to spending. The the almost 5.75 million visitor's to BPB last year is a number not to be dismissed and i would expect this number to rise this year as I beleve thay have a new ride opening (i am not 100% sure of this), but with that many visitors one even if your average spend per visitor is only £5 that amounts to a signifiacant income, I would agree that the traditional british seaside holiday is on the decrease, however I beleve that in many resorts round the country the numbers of visitors is on the up may be only slowly but it is happening.
However if Margate is to get visitors it needs something to bring them there, as Nick has pointed out in his posts the Casino developement in Blackpool is an additional attraction, the Tower, Winter Gardens nor the Pleasure Beach or indeed any other attraction is having to be demolished for this to happen, therefore its goning to bring more visitors to the town, now obviously a percentage of them will be comming just for the Gambling on offer, but most visitors will also leave the casino and visit the many other attractions on offer, thay can do this because such attractions are there, if some one visits Margate and there is no Dreamland what can thay do other than visit the wonderful Shell Grotto and the new art gallery nothing, and with the best will in the world a Family with Kids does not want to sit on the beach all day, thay want somewhere thay can have a little fun and possible a little controled scareing, and the amusment park is where thay head, you need amusement arcades too, and when i visited there were not that many of them either i think i counted 3 along he front and there was the one in Dreamland and the one on the walk along into the park this was 3 years ago in Mid August , there even then there were many people about but with little to ride on allthough the scenic was getting many riders on, Margate needs Dreamland to be 100% amusment park with a good varied slection of rides to cater for all ages of visitor.

Cliff c

I think you totally fail to understand the Economics of these things. Yes 5 Million £5 pounds is a lot of money but it is insignificant compared to Black pools costs. The Holiday market has changed and continues to change. The traditional seaside resorts are no longer the attraction they once were. They now cater for a niche market of mainly elderly visitors.
Believe me if these places were the goldmine you make them out to be companies would be falling over themselves for a slice of the action. As it is no one wants to invest in them.

[Nick]

I think you totally fail to understand the Economics of these things. Yes 5 Million £5 pound notes is a lot of money but it is insignificant compared to Black pools costs. .

Five million £5 is a lot of money, but even that does not equate to the turnover of Blackpool Pleasure Beach. It is significantly more than that (presumably due to the success of the retailing, restaurants, bars, shows and other facilities on the park). And, of course, a venue that entertains around 6 million people a year costs a lot to run. But it is a profitable business, so what does that matter? I don't suppose they would be doing it if they didn't make money, as the park is not a charity.

I am actually quite amused about Bob's constant references to Blackpool Pleasure Beach. Only Bob would try and use the most visited tourist attraction in the entire country (and one of the most visited in the world) an example of failure!

The Holiday market has changed and continues to change. The traditional seaside resorts are no longer the attraction they once were. They now cater for a niche market of mainly elderly visitors.
Believe me if these places were the goldmine you make them out to be companies would be falling over themselves for a slice of the action. As it is no one wants to invest in them.

That is a sweeping statement if ever I heard one, which isn't even worth a response. Isn't there this Toby Hunter guy, who recently moved from Newbury to Reading, who wants to invest in a seaside resort?

Nick

[Neil]

Bob, here's a suggestion. Go onto www.google.co.uk and type 'British seaside visitor numbers' and you might get a surpirse. All the sources I had time to look at are very reassuring. If you are having problems I'll try and get you a list of my favourites. Check out this one:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/3612329.stm
Actually the BBC website is full of how well the British seaside is doing. Things are really looking up. I may even send the Council a list of some of these sites as they may be interessted!
On the BBC site you can 'email to a friend', but thought better of making Toby Hunter my friend. If Bob tells me his email address I can make him my friend (that's right Bob, you can have a friend).

The Kent resorts of Margate, Ramsgate and Broadstairs, which have been enjoying an increase in visitor numbers since 1996, have also rebranded themselves.

[Neil]

Well I promised to get Bob some further evidence. I haven't got much time at the mo as I am working on various other Dreamland related projects, but here's a few more:
http://www.firstvoice.co.uk/data/defaul ... firstvoice
http://www.seabritain2005.com/server.ph ... .004019002
http://www.shu.ac.uk/cgi-bin/news_full. ... R426&db=03
...and an interessting comment in the last one...

This report confirms what we have been trying to tell the Government for a long time – that Britain still has a large and viable seaside tourist industry. This is an industry to be nurtured and supported, not written off as a lost cause. With rising incomes, there should be enough room in the market place not only for foreign holidays but also for our own seaside towns.’

[Nick]

The last report is a very well-known document, which I have referred to on many occasions in seaside regeneration projects I am involved in. There are lots of exciting developments happening in seaside resorts at the moment

Nick

[Bob]

The last report is a very well-known document, which I have referred to on many occasions in seaside regeneration projects I am involved in. There are lots of exciting developments happening in seaside resorts at the moment

Nick

No where in that document does it saythat Seaside resorts are attracting more tourists. The implication of the report is that the population of seaside towns is growing faster then average. This seem to be driven by a large number of hotels and guests houses being converted to cheap rented accomodation. The population growth would naturally account for an increase in jobs. The report though points out that Unemployment in Seaside reports is well above average. The report also states that Unemployment is far higher then the official figures show.

Nothing at all in that report indicates any real growth in the tourist market.