The Fence

[RowBot]

Thanks porf lets hope we are all ready to object even though we shouldn't have to if TDC does their job right.

[Jim Douglas Jr.]

Good.
Could you post the information from the booklet for us, if possible, so we can all object?

Can they force the removal of the fence?

[Nick]

Good.
Could you post the information from the booklet for us, if possible, so we can all object?

I wil post details on the website as soon as it is up on ukplanning.com (which will allow everybody to send comments online).

Can they force the removal of the fence?

If planning permission is refused, the Council can force removal of the fence.

[Neil]

Already written my letter, I can't see them being allowed to keep this fence, but I suppose better safe than sorry. It's a tad of a shame that its just missed Airtime and First Drop as it will now be too late to get the message around all the club members, but will try and get something on some of the forums.

No doubt anyone who objects will be doing it not because they want the site to be retained as an amusement park, but because they want to have a vindictive attack at a certain individual.

[porterm]

Neil,

Having just received my copy of First Drop from the European Coaster Club I noticed there's a great photo of the "wonderful" offending fence in all its glory along with Nick Laister's Save Dreamland Update on page 42. At least it's in one prime publication, however, I personally still feel that we need to get more high profile local TV News coverage. (I have tried my best, but to no avail, as far as I know so far; it'll probably be equally difficult for the media to record park images again if last year is anything to go by sadly).

Finding employment has somewhat distracted me from having so much time to make a real impact so far this year, what with all those awful application forms etc to deal with! - I will certainly aim to support next Saturday's Campaign Disco in Chatham though, even if times have never been so hard for me probably. Like Dreamland though I believe there has to be light at the end of that extremely long tunnel (or maybe I should say through high security industrial fencing).

I sincerely hope the Council will use their clout to remove this monstrosity at the earliest opportunity. Otherwise I will definitely be objecting once again (I don't think I've ever objected so often before in my life about one topic!) - it really shouldn't be necessary but that's the way things seem to run with this Council. Like our American friend, Jim Douglas Jr, said before, it would be great to kick out this current Council at the earliest chance, however time seems to be against us there electionwise.

Martin

[Jim Douglas Jr.]

It's like they have no vision. Housing and shopping.

That only goes so far. People can't endlessly live and shop. There has to be services, industry, entertainment, open spaces....
I don't understand what their beef is with 16 lousy acres.
"Oh! Let's build shopping and more flats in an already depressed area!"
From reading as much as I did of their plan, it's obvious most of these people don't have any real qualifications to make these kinds of decisions, as proven by the inspectors report. Looks to me like they are just mimicking what seems to have boosted the economy elsewhere. It's short term gain. That's all.

I'm ignorant of your law, but it would be worth checking to see if there's a way to get individual members of the council, or the whole council removed (recalled). We can do it here, but it takes petitions, and that takes time and effort.

Martin's right. It's all well and good to be in a coaster enthusiasts magazine, but your real peoblem is local and we've got to find a way to get this up front and out to the people of Thanet. It might be time to get agressive. We also have what's known as a Class Action Lawsuit, a legal action that represents a large group of people as plantifs.
They can border on frivolous, but are often enough bad publicity to make large companies give in to pressure for the sake of public relations.

I don't know. I'm running out of ideas.

Maybe the search for a wealthy investor or group of investors is in order. Someone who could afford to purchase the land from Waterbridge, and would be willing to do some of the greenspace renovations and lease it long term to a willing operator. Perhaps enough pressure on Waterbridge, and they'll want to unload it.

Names also carry weight and raise awareness. Maybe there's a local celebrity who could be inspired to join the fight...?

[RowBot]

Notice

The fence application has come through on Ukplanning and the url is below:

http://www.ukplanning.com/ukp/showCaseF ... F06%2F0450

Lets all get objecting

[Neil]

In terms of local celebrity's there's a few, including Tracey Emming and the actor who plays Trigger in a classic comedy (not sure if you have Only Fools and Horses on your side of the pond!). The problem is really we need them to approach the campaign, as if we go chasing after people it will make the campaign look rather desperate and if we become annyong we may put these people off.

I don't think there is a way to get the Council removed as they were voted for democratically and there isn't really any power for us to do that. If the people of Margate have voted these people in it could be unpopular for us to then try and remove them. I think Councillors themselves can remove a leader with a vote of no confidence, but at the moment the Conservative Majority are obediantly trotting along after Sandy Ezekiel so there is limited options here.

In terms of a wealthy investor coming forwards there are several including Philip Miller, but they cannot offer the ammount of money Waterbridge want. There is no problem with finding the investors, but more in making Waterbridge sell to them.

I fully agree about needing to do more than write for enthusiaste magazienes, but these can ofcourse give the campaign a big boost. If everytime somthing like the fence blows up we can get 100 enthusiastes to write letters it provides a back bone to local support. It is also significant in making the point about the Scenic being a national treasure and being more than local significance.

Let's hope that the decission is called in by the Secretary of State as at the moment this seems to be one of the main hopes.

[Nick]

In terms of local celebrity's there's a few, including Tracey Emming and the actor who plays Trigger in a classic comedy (not sure if you have Only Fools and Horses on your side of the pond!). The problem is really we need them to approach the campaign, as if we go chasing after people it will make the campaign look rather desperate and if we become annyong we may put these people off.

Trigger actor Roger Lloyd-Pack (see him in Doctor Who in the next few weeks!) is already a member of the campaign. There are several news items about him on this page:

http://joylandbooks.com/scenicrailway/news0302.htm

We also issued a press release:

http://joylandbooks.com/scenicrailway/pressrelease3.htm

Tracey Emin is also fully aware of this campaign, and indeed loaned us a fantastic film for our 2003 convention.

I don't think there is a way to get the Council removed as they were voted for democratically and there isn't really any power for us to do that. If the people of Margate have voted these people in it could be unpopular for us to then try and remove them. I think Councillors themselves can remove a leader with a vote of no confidence, but at the moment the Conservative Majority are obediantly trotting along after Sandy Ezekiel so there is limited options here.

There was a recent Thanet Conservative leadership challenge, I believe. I don't know the details, but I do know that Ezekiel is still in charge.

In terms of a wealthy investor coming forwards there are several including Philip Miller, but they cannot offer the ammount of money Waterbridge want. There is no problem with finding the investors, but more in making Waterbridge sell to them.

It is not necessarily that Philip can't afford to pay the full redevelopment price for the site, it is that he would be stupid to pay more than the site is worth as an amusement park. It just doesn't make good business sense for an amusement park operator to do that. I certainly would not expect him or any other operator to pay more than the site is worth.

[lutonlad]

My objections raised on the uk planning website. A statement on the site says that objections can be viewed by the public, yet i couldn't find any links to them etc, to see what people have put.

Gary

[Jim Douglas Jr.]

When I said investors, I understood that operators are already interested.
This is where we need to be thinking LARGER. We know individual operators are interested but on a more appropriate budget.
Have we looked outside of that group? Perhaps another large real estate firm? One that would be willing to invest long term in Dreamland FOR Dreamland?

I submitted this:
The "proposed" fence has already been permenantly erected (it is anchored by post into the ground and is in no way
a temporary fixture) MUCH too close and to the
distraction of a Class 2 Listed Building.
This is a clear attempt by the landowner to detract
from the aesthetic and usefullness of the
Dreamland site and of the listed Scenic Railway. Under this class, I believe surrounding areas are included as preservation of site.
I suggest an order be issued immediately for the immediate
removal of said permenantly installed fencing.
How unfortunate that the council has allowed this to take place
by reassigning the possible uses for the site.
Kyle W. Sund
San Francisco, California, USA

[vince69619]

I got mine in, but it's not the masterpiece that Jim has produced.

Vince.

[Jim Douglas Jr.]

I hate being so far away.
You can bet your sweet bums I'd be all over those council meetings.

[Neil]

Sorry, yes, my earlier post wasn't very clear. The comments of celebrities and high profile figures can be viewed on the Save Dreamland site: 'your comments' (messages from around the world). What I should have said is that if there are any other celebrities with Margate connections then hopefully they will approach the campaign, but I'm not sure going on a kind of 'celebrity hunt' would work in our favour. Both Tracey Emmin and Roger Lloyd-Pack have given much apprechiated help and perhaps the fact they were willing to come forwards shows that they are sincere and not just pledging support so as to shut us up (not quite sure if that euphimism is the best way to phrase it, but hopefully you will get the gist)

I fully agree about people not paying more than the site is worth which is what I really meant by 'cannot'. The chances are if they went around getting ripped off by bussinesses like Waterbridge they wouldn't have become successful businessmen in the first place. They may have the money, yet even if they do in a sense they can't afford to spend it because a decission which clearly wouldn't be viable would compromise their other businesses. I guess it all comes down to greed as if Mr Godden had accepted the offer made by Philip Miller he would have had enough money to buy a really nice house, car, food and go on superb holidays. Maybe he wants lots of money for a charity he supports, but it seems more likely that it will be plundered on something less worth while (although I won't take this any further as I don't want to get suide, not sure going bankrupt while you're still at school is very wise!)

In terms of the fence I won't bore you with my full letter as it's very long, but I've petty much mentiooned what Jim has in greater detail and have also commented on 'the quality of the development'. Even if they did want a permanent fence in that position they could have gone for something more aesthetically pleasing with a bit of paint...etc.

[Tony P]

I have just 'vented my splean' over the fence via the planning web site. I to received a letter from the council asking for my comments so it would have been rude not to.

Let's hope they take the same line as they did with the demolision plans and then ensure that the fence is removed before any more damage is done.