Why can't Margate be like Brighton?

[EAS]

I loved the Spanish City. Trouble is, councils can often not see further than their nose ends in terms of what assets they have. 'Regeneration' is often accompanied by subsidies from the government, as with the dreadful Pathfinder schemes in the north, but he who pays the piper etc. Nothing is as simplistic as Bob makes it out to be. And so often these things take so long that the economic situation has often moved on.

I'm not deficient in understanding, Bob. I suspect I am rather more aware of a great deal than you credit me with.

I think that possibly the reason why people stopped going to seaside resorts for holidays was the rise of package holidays abroad. Suddenly, they seemed old fashioned.

Cheaper and cheaper - and tackier and tackier. This in turn lead to the cheap flights bonanza, which those of us with a social conscience now appreciate is unsustainable and environmentally dreadful.

http://www.unlimited-spurt.org/

I think that there are people who would happily spend some of their leisure time at the seaside once more. Possibly not a fortnight, but certainly a week or long weekend, if places were smartened up and made attractive. Stag weekends, hen parties... I am going soon to Blackpool for a nostalgic birthday treat - the illuminations, ride the historic coasters.

I point out that the Save the Cyclone at Southport campaign is being driven by young people, who have some awareness of their seaside funfair heritage. It's backed by SAVE Britain's Heritage, which also backed the Dreamland campaign. And continues to be interested.

I have no desire to visit the sort of development that is being proposed at Rhyll - why would I? My local large towns and cities provide shops, bars, cafes. Spanish City - I'm not so far, but now that it is just a facade what's the attraction? None.

I also love traditional amusement arcades - when I visit Whitby I play the machines - as do many others, I've never noticed a lack of custom. Many are young people.

Travelling fairs - my local town still has one twice a year, Newcastle Hoppings still draws crowds annually.

Dreamland has a major card to play - the heritage ticket. More people visit heritage attractions at weekends than visit football matches.

Oh, I appreciate that the developers may make more by razing the site and putting 'vibrant mixed use regeneration' plans in place. I've heard it all before.

It's about making the maximim profit. That's all.

However, the site has a listed structure on it, and has I believe another number of structures listed as curtilage.

Anyone tries destroying those - I think that they may find they are fighting not just the Dreamland campaigners, but national conservation groups, and statutory consultees.

I know I would be one of those demanding a public inquiry. And I think I can guarantee many others would too.

I'm interested in this EU legislation. Please point me in the direction.

[lutonlad]

Perhaps you could answer this Bob. Here is a challenge to you and the Margate Town Centre Regeneration Company. If the Save Dreamland Campaign clubbed together and offered full market value for Dreamland as an amusement park, independently assessed by a chartered surveyor jointly appointed by the Campaign and MTCRC, would MTCRC sell it to us? If the answer is yes, then let's start talking.

You honestly expect Bob to answer this one? he has yet to answer any direct question put to him on this forum. Instead he goes totally of the issue and replies with something of irelivance, but hey if he does then good luck to you!!

Lutonlad

[Cheryl]

Bob, I was watching with interest, a program the other day, which quoted that a staggering 55 million people holidayed or took short breaks in the UK last year. This goes against everything you say about people not taking holidays here. I would love to know where you get your stats from and am agog with anticipation to the answer of Nick's question.

[EAS]

This week, there's a funfair in our local town... not a rare occurrence.

[cliffc]

Bob, I was watching with interest, a program the other day, which quoted that a staggering 55 million people holidayed or took short breaks in the UK last year. This goes against everything you say about people not taking holidays here. I would love to know where you get your stats from and am agog with anticipation to the answer of Nick's question.

Hi

I would agree that there are large numbers of people taking holidays and breaks in the uk, however me and my other half were in Blackpool for an over night stay at the beginning of the month, Thursday to Friday, and allthough there were significant numbers of visitors the signifiacnt number of them were over 60 and not the sort of people that would use the Pleasure Beach in the main, I was surprised at the number of older people in the town.

Cliff C

[EAS]

Well - I'm spending my 58th birthday at the end of the month at BPB... to ride the woodies. That's assuming they are still in business then - the Dipper I think is closed, as the log flume is being demolished ready for Traumatizer installation.

That's a Monday and Tuesday, when most younger people are still at work/school.

Some us may be old in years but young in spirit? I don't care for the modern coasters, but the other half (59) loves them. He also loves the Scenic, which he rode many times in his youth.


I would suggest weekends and school holidays are more the times you will find younger people there.

It's still one of the country's top visitor attractions.

[Nick]

It's still one of the country's top visitor attractions.

Actually, it is still the top visitor attraction in terms of total numbers.

[EAS]

Yes - thanks - I've just been looking up the top twenty ( to see where Pleasureland was situated in this) and note that it is indeed no 1.

Pretty amazing figures really.

[Bob]

Bob, I was watching with interest, a program the other day, which quoted that a staggering 55 million people holidayed or took short breaks in the UK last year. This goes against everything you say about people not taking holidays here. I would love to know where you get your stats from and am agog with anticipation to the answer of Nick's question.

Hi

I would agree that there are large numbers of people taking holidays and breaks in the uk, however me and my other half were in Blackpool for an over night stay at the beginning of the month, Thursday to Friday, and allthough there were significant numbers of visitors the signifiacnt number of them were over 60 and not the sort of people that would use the Pleasure Beach in the main, I was surprised at the number of older people in the town.

Cliff C

What you are stating is correct. Visitor numbers in Blackpool are decling as it mainly attracts an older clientel. Whilst the visitor numbers are still large , it is probably still the UK's leading attraction numbers are falling fast. It tends to demonstrate the state of the UK's Amusement Park Industry. Blckpool like many others is seen as tired and dated and a bit seedy. Like Margate it needs an image makeover.

[cliffc]

What you are stating is correct. Visitor numbers in Blackpool are decling as it mainly attracts an older clientel. Whilst the visitor numbers are still large , it is probably still the UK's leading attraction numbers are falling fast. It tends to demonstrate the state of the UK's Amusement Park Industry. Blckpool like many others is seen as tired and dated and a bit seedy. Like Margate it needs an image makeover.[/quote]

Hi all

While the average age of the people there was most likely in the 50's the town was far from dead, and also I would not suggest that every one in this age bracket would not want to use the pleasure beach and its rides, most of them will not, thay are more likly to spend the day in the tower ballroom tripping the light fantastic. As in every other area of life there will be exeptions to this, and as was said in a reply above some older people still like to go on rides. There were younger people there too and the arcades and shopping area, as well as the tower, sea life, and Tussauds had many patrons in there. Obviously this was a Thursday and the kids were at school i am assumuing weekends would be as busy as ever in the town, Blackpool still attracts the visitors the average age may be older and people will now only stay a few days rarther than a week as we did when I was a child.
The town is far from dead and the Pleasure Beach is still the No1 free entry attraction in the country, and if its run correctly it will contine to thrive for many years to come.
I do however think Blackpool is putting alot of its future in getting the super casino, and to be honest I dont think its going to happen as that will go to London.

Cliff C

[EAS]

I so agree re Margate - a revitalised Dreamland, with the Scenic Railway as the star attraction!


What a wonderful thing that would be! People would flock to it.

Not the ghastly St*rb*cks and Big M*c culture I have no doubt Bob would love to see in its place. Well, that would make more money for the developers, wouldn't it Bob?

I see Bob has managed, in his ill-spelt way, to avoid the issues as usual.

Come on Bob - some facts and figures to support your assertions about the age profile at Blackpool?

It is not probably - it is still the UK's most visited attraction. Tired, dated and a bit seedy? With those wonderful historic coasters, including the Nash? It's called FUN, Bob. Maybe you don't know much about FUN.

Other amusement parks are making cash. The problem is when owners retire and the parks are put up for sale, they tend to be bought by greedy developers, who make all manner of claims about their unviability in order that they can redevelop. Hey, that way they make more cash, and to hell with anything else - including heritage.

I'm not daft Bob - even if you are. I'm used to the wiles of developers.

The reasons for the closure of Pleasureland are complex, but until the disastrous entrance charge and armbands were introduced there were over two million visitors a year. In 2005, that plummeted from the 2004 figure to half a million. Cause and effect, Bob?

Decent management and a good park brings visitors. Margate has a wonderful ride in the Scenic Railway to exploit.



(Hey - none of my friends would be seen dead tripping the light fantastic in the ballroom - bloody 'ell, we aren't in our dotages yet!!!)

[Bob]

I so agree re Margate - a revitalised Dreamland, with the Scenic Railway as the star attraction!


What a wonderful thing that would be! People would flock to it.

Not the ghastly St*rb*cks and Big M*c culture I have no doubt Bob would love to see in its place. Well, that would make more money for the developers, wouldn't it Bob?

I see Bob has managed, in his ill-spelt way, to avoid the issues as usual.

Come on Bob - some facts and figures to support your assertions about the age profile at Blackpool?

It is not probably - it is still the UK's most visited attraction. Tired, dated and a bit seedy? With those wonderful historic coasters, including the Nash? It's called FUN, Bob. Maybe you don't know much about FUN.

Other amusement parks are making cash. The problem is when owners retire and the parks are put up for sale, they tend to be bought by greedy developers, who make all manner of claims about their unviability in order that they can redevelop. Hey, that way they make more cash, and to hell with anything else - including heritage.

I'm not daft Bob - even if you are. I'm used to the wiles of developers.

The reasons for the closure of Pleasureland are complex, but until the disastrous entrance charge and armbands were introduced there were over two million visitors a year. In 2005, that plummeted from the 2004 figure to half a million. Cause and effect, Bob?

Decent management and a good park brings visitors. Margate has a wonderful ride in the Scenic Railway to exploit.



(Hey - none of my friends would be seen dead tripping the light fantastic in the ballroom - bloody 'ell, we aren't in our dotages yet!!!)

They are a plc I suggest you study their accounts for the last 10 years

[EAS]

Have you?

And where are your facts and figures re the age profile?

And exactly what connection with the owners of the Dreamland site have you, Bob?

Or will that be more questions unanswered?

Oh - and why repeat an entire post, when it's simply above yours?

[Nick]

They are a plc I suggest you study their accounts for the last 10 years

What is a plc? Blackpool Pleasure Beach?

If by 'plc' mean a 'public limited company' (which is what most people understand a plc to be), then you are wrong. The Pleasure Beach is privately owned and has been for over 100 years. They do not therefore make their accounts publicly available.

However, as with all private limited companies, their accounts can be viewed by payment of a fee to Companies House. And I am afraid there is nothing exciting to see there, just a very successful family business ploughing its profits back into the business.

[Neil]

I really don't think the Supercasino will sort out Blackpool's problems. At the end of the day people aren't going to gamble a million pounds and then stay in a dirt cheap bed and breakfast and sit eating fish and chips on the promenade. The Super Casino seems to be relying on making a significant portion of its profit on relatively small numbers of people spending vast ammounts of money, whereas Blackpool's economy seems to have worked on vast numbers of people spening not that much money. Personally I want to see them concentrate on the basics. To be fair some of Blackpool's businessmen are putting in the effort, and wonderful things seem to be going on over at the Sandcastle water park, however some powerful people such as the Pleasurebeach Company aren't doing their bit. Personally I think Blackpool's future depends more on whether or not it becomes a World Heritage site rather than whether it gets a super casino.

I've always thought that closing Pleasureland is partly to scaremonker and make the point 'this will happen to Blackpool if you don't give us a super casino'. Whether I'm right or not I doubt we'll ever know, but judging from what's being said by a lot of people this is how Pleasureland's closure is being interpreted.