Big Dipper Blackpool. Track removed.

[Jim Douglas Jr.]

Ther's obviously going to be a main support falling near that one partially removed turnaround. A minor alteration there shouldn't detract from the ride at all. Really, at that point in the ride, what's the difference it the turn is shortened or extended a meter or 2?
Better a minor alteration than demolishing it.
Still no confirmation on that. They may just need access to that area to land support(s) and reassemble it as before.

No point in getting too worked up.

This should maybe get everyone on the ball about getting those structures listed, though.

[EAS]

Well, that's one off the list, as it's now damaged and altered!

(that was ironic BTW...)

[Neil]

Indeed cynics would wonder that. A small alteration to the turns are arguably more severe than part of the Cyclone being rebuilt to the original design after a fire. Oh well, that's what happens when the money grabs begin.

Stop talking from your behind in order to make pathetic political points.

There is another forum user who ignores the specifics of the situations and makes wooly general comments. Your comment about us making political points could be thrown into pretty much any discussion. In other words you have a box of ready made comments and randomly pick some. You might as well tell us to stop living in the past.

[Neil]

I suppose the situation is that the Pleasurebeach Company have recently closed one of their parks which leaves Blackpool's Pleasurebeach on its own in the firing line. Rides have been removed, staff got rid of and seemingly petty changes made which will make it difficult to get these rides listed. Besides all the other interesting decissions regarding price, merchandise, catering etc. Are people scare mongering or learning from the past? If the argument used to say we are scare mongering that Blackpool Pleasurebeach is too big, look at Belle View. The bottom line is that power and money corrupt, and property developers quite frankly won't care about anything that gets in the way.

[EAS]

Exactly.

World Heritage Site status may of course help BPB to survive, so let's hope it starts treating its historic rides with more respect than seems to be happening with Big Dipper. It could make a great deal more re publicity about the historic rides than it does.

I think I possibly was one of the last to ride it in its current form (at least, as of last Tuesday!)

On another more Dreamland issue - my other half, who misspent a rather large part of his yoof at Dreamland, was sat down in front of the Scenic Railway ride video from the TV prog. He ended it grinning from ear to ear. It still has so much pleasure to give to so many, which is why it has to be saved!

Trolls - same old phrases posted on forums the world over I suspect!

[EAS]

http://www.235club.org.uk/forum/showthr ... 3#post8463

Interesting!

And pretty garbled info really.

Ig Dipper anyone??

[Neil]

Certain campaigners won't divulge their names or whatever vested interests they have.

The only people I've seen not divulging names are Bob and a few Pleasurebeach fanatics. A rather cheap way to dismiss a pressure group

Compare it to the open, accountable and pro-active 'Save Dreamland' campaign group.

Grease up to one lot and hope they will dismiss the other. I think they will find that a lot of the Save Dreamland Campaign will support the Pleasureland one.

I think listing and conservation has to be very particular to the building or structure; there can't be a one size fits all policy

There has to be for law to work. Listed Building Status is to do with law. I'm sure the poster has a valid point, but already whether or not a building is listed is to do with opinion (ie what constitutes as historical importance), and the more opinions that are alllowed to creep in the more diluted things become. I think law does have to be as clear as possible. All in all what a waste of web space. If they're going to use cheap insults to slag off a campaign they could atleast tell us who they're aimed at.

[EAS]

Some of it me I think Neil - which makes me chuckle a bit. I think I am seen as the much reviled heritage lobby. Peter P has added another more level-headed post to that thread.

The Pleasureland and Cyclone campaign has been running a few short weeks. It's not an easy one though, considering the chainsawing and the site closure, but if people don't try they don't get anyhere. I'm not sure how pro-active they expect anyone to be - stopping the chainsaws by climbing the structure with a SAVE OUR CYCLONE banner and calling the telly news, as Peter Crompton did, seems to me pretty pro-active, a local committee has been formed, although support is coming from all over - USA and Spain amongst other places - a website, forum, on-line and now paper petition, car stickers printed (and available on e-bay),

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll? ... &rd=1&rd=1


a 'firewatch' last weekend (just in case - stray fireworks...) very serious correspondence and discussions with EH and the DCMS about the listing process and the shortcomings of it, the support of a national and well-respected conservation organisation (which also supports the Dreamland and Scenic Railway campaign), reports in the Liverpool and other press, even the Society of Antiquaries newsletter had a feature!

http://www.sapling.info/newsletter/200609_cyclone.shtml

Dune radio has been broadcasting and is doing a feature on it....Dr Pugh the MP is in contact...


The wildlife on the site has been the subject of a great deal of lobbying and involvement of national protection organisations, also.

However, as all here know, after that it's a hard slog. It's a large site and worth a great deal. It's actually got covenants over it so it can only be used for leisure purposes, but that's a wide remit, and Blackpool Pleasure Beach holds the lease and clearly won't want to relinquish it to another operator when it can maybe build a cash cow in the form of a hotel and casino there.

It may help BPB Ltd, but it won't help the tourist industry on which much of Southport relies. I believe that a well run family park is possible there, I am sure if well-managed by someone who cares about it, it will make money. I also believe that if Cyclone was repaired it could operate as a stand-alone attraction and make cash as part of a wider leisure facility. It's such an icon and with the right publicity I am sure people would still come to ride. The views from the turnaround over the sea are something worth riding for anyhow. There is a swimming pool going to be near too. OK it all may not be the trad seaside stuff of the past, but it could still all be fun.

The meetings are publicised on the (public) forum, and anyone is welcome to sign up for the campaign and help in any way possible. Many of us live too far away to be involved at local level, but that doesn't mean we aren't anxiously trying to do whatever is possible to retain both Cyclone and some part of Pleasureland (it's a large site) as the historic amusement park it has been for many decades.

It's sad to see what some parts of this once lovely seaside town has become in recent times - a Matalan, MacDonalds and Pizza hut enclave for example, they are a bit of an eyesore in a town which is seeking 'classic resort' status. It is still a town far removed from the tackiness of Blackpool, which I also love but for very different reasons. I don't think they can have been helpful either, pulling custom away from nearby Pleasureland and any catering outlet there. You have to wonder if Sefton Council has any strategy at all, long term.

Reading Stephen Copnall's smashing book 'Pleasureland Memories'(Skelter) and seeing the pics, as well as a large postcard collection of Southport past on another website, is a very sharp reminder of what we are losing at these once very lovely resorts. I do think there is a future for them, but I hope it isn't simply as a place for 'casino hotels' as Southport's leaders seem to think. There will always be families with children who would love a day or two at the seaside and a trip to places such as Dreamland and Pleasureland, if they are attractive and the prices are right. Even without children, many adults still have a sense of fun and would enjoy it all I'm sure.


I'm not at all sure about who the vested interests are supposed to be either!

As far as listing goes - well it's a bit of a black art that one, in the end it is down to providing enough evidence and expert opinion on the merits and history of a building or structure, knowing the law and government policy, having experience of why and for what reasons other structures are listed and refused listing, arguing a case, then you just have to hope that EH and/or the DCMS agree with you. 20th century stuff is harder than other things though.

Quote: 'Heaven preserve us all from eco-warriors with conservationist leanings, or worse, with much darker business motives.'

Well - I'm proud to stand up and be counted! Without we heritage eco-warriors, so much would be lost. It's hard work, dispiriting at times, most are doing it voluntarily, and David and Goliath battles spring to mind.

Anyhow - the Chair of the Cyclone group has responded... just to prove not all are shadowy anarchists trying to bring down the government...

[bluea61]

From what I have read elsewhere the Big Dipper track has been removed purely for site access only. As soon as the ride is constructed the track will be replaced. So I don't think there is anything to worry about.

[EAS]

There seems to be so much rumour flying about that it's hard to tell until it's actually happened!

[Itonagaju]

The work on the Big Dipper at BPB, is as far as most people aware in Blackpool is being carried out to allow for the construction of the TT

[EAS]

Yes well we all know that, but until work is actually completed it is not certain if the rumoured slight re-routing of the track to accommodate TT will happen or not.

Pointless really going on with it is it isn't until it's complete.

[Neil]

I too would not take rumours seriously. According to one rumour the Space Shot is going to Blackpool Pleasurebeach, but this seems a tad unlikely. Under 50% of rumours about theme parks are inaccurate so while they may be guidance they can not be taken literally. People are not scare mogering, merely trying to be safe rather than sorry. If the Pleasurebeach Company has no plans to remove the Big Dipper presumably they wouldn't be too dissappointed if it were to be listed.

[furie]

Space Shot is 100% going to Loudon Castle in Scotland. Originally though, rumours from BPB staff said that, and Chaos were heading to Blackpool.

So rumours can start in "good" places, and still be rubbish (Chaos now resides as a pile of metal at Lightwater Valley).

Big Dipper being removed was never really on the cards, and I don't think anyone thought that the work being done was dismantling of the ride. It's the fact that altering the ride causes complications...

Neil, you're right of course. If I was running Blackpool and in charge of the such a depth of history, I'd be applying for listing myself as a way to sell the park to visitors. "Come to the Pleasure Beach and see one of our grade II historic rollercoasters. Ride one of the worlds last remaining Tumble Bugs or Water Chutes. Or take a spin on the last Whip in the country..."

Ooops, forget the latter part, they're already gone and sold one to scrap merchants and fanatics (I know the Whip is SBNO, but I doubt it'll remain for long).

[Marky66]

Just a note,

I've heard many times the Whip at Blackpool was the last one in the UK but that is simply not true.
Carters Steam Fair that tours the South East has a fully retstored one.