Dreamland not opening this year

[kevinashe]

how much would it cost to buy the full site thats if the current owners wanted to sell because there seems enough of people wanting to save dreamland to set up a trust then apply for a lottery grant to buy the site especcially with a historic structure there,then that would leave you with a site to bring in concession rides to bring in money and also save other(in danger)rides in the uk like the water chute in rhyl and some of the rides at pleasureland southport.the other option is to buy land somewhere else and move the scenic costly though it is,or if you had someone who could buy southports lease you could move it there it would be nearer to where i live it scotland and would mean i would be able to ride it plus it might give bpb a run for there money

[EAS]

It would cost millions as it's now classified as a development site, and Lottery funding isn't a simple matter believe me!

[stuart]

the other option is to buy land somewhere else and move the scenic costly though it is,or if you had someone who could buy southports lease you could move it there it would be nearer to where i live it scotland and would mean i would be able to ride it plus it might give bpb a run for there money

the scenic is not a moveable structure, it would practically be rebuilt from scratch and then it would no longer be listed.

jimmy godden suggested 'gifting' the scenic to margate if a suitable site could be found several years ago.

the campaign is not just about saving the scenic. it's about saving Dreamland, Thanets largest ever tourist attraction from developers and keeping the scenic in it's current setting - an amusement park in Margate.

[Vince, Charlie and Sam]

the scenic is not a moveable structure, it would practically be rebuilt from scratch and then it would no longer be listed.

jimmy godden suggested 'gifting' the scenic to margate if a suitable site could be found several years ago.

the campaign is not just about saving the scenic. it's about saving Dreamland, Thanets largest ever tourist attraction from developers and keeping the scenic in it's current setting - an amusement park in Margate.

This is all true, particularly that the Scenic Railway would not be moveable.

My *personal* opinion is that a compromise should be sought with Waterbridge which reflects the importance of keeping the Scenic Railway along with a permanent supporting amusement park while recognising that tourism trends have changed and that they are unlikely to change back.

My *personal* opinion is that if Mr Godden were to permanently gift the Scenic Railway to Margate along with that part of Dreamland which lies on the seaward side then no objection should be made to development of the remainder of the park.

My opinion only!

[Zoidstar]

I have to agree, sacrfice half to three quaters of the park to re-development.

Keep the scenic and the aera immediatly round it for rides and sideshows possibly do what Southend done this year and have an ice skating rink installed over crimbo, and in summer months have it as a roller skating rink, get a skateboard/bmx talf tube or what ever its called built, a ball pool, soft play aera for toddlers, have tearooms and a dancefloor for the older generations with a bandstand to provide the music

Have travling rides visit for the summer season this would cater for all ages all year.

The funding could come from the redevelopment of half to three quaters of the site with rents helping to pay for the up keep of the park, carefull landscaping with indidginous plants and fawna and it would be a nice edition to Margate.

[Lou]

This is really a worrying post, its like we all can see what is likely to happen, but we don't seem to be able to provide a strategy to halt it in its tracks.
Everyone I have spoken to wants to keep Dreamland (well, they want Dreamland back). Thats people from Thanet and outside.
It seems completely wrong that money rules this debate, God, Thanet is truely being run into the ground at the say of the idiot council and people with more money that sense, whose only objective is pure bloody greed and sod everything else.
We have had to put up with Westwood Cross (who agreed to that monstrosity) - and the Turner Centre - money is still being poured into that.
While other genuine local causes like Dreamland, the Theatre Royal and even the Tennis Courts at George v Park, have to fight to try to be salveged.
WE DO NOT WAN'T ANY MORE PRIVATE DWELLINGS IN THANET - WE WANT OUR HERITAGE AND PLACES WHERE POPLE CAN GO AND ENJOY THEMSELVES...........................These are few and far between and we need to hold onto them

[EAS]

I agree absolutely.


Well said.

[Neil]

I entriely agree with Lou. Also, suppose a compromise were to be met, how long would it last? By saving the whole of Dreamland hopefully the Scenic could continue to operate for another 80 plus years, but a compromise could easily become short term appeasement. "You let us build houses on 3/4 of the site and we'll keep an amusement area on the final portion, honest guv".

Permanently gifting the Scenic to Margate is all very well, but:
Who would be a better operator, Phillip Miller or Thanet District Council
We already know that Waterbridge are happy to use compulsary purchase if neccessary. It could very easily fall back into their hands.

Thirdly I think to write off Phillip Miller would be to betray a lot of people, including most importatantly Phillip Miller himself. He's been working hard for several years now trying to buy the entire site, and we should support him in this.

Ultimately I think it's housing and possibly shops that Waterbridge want (hopefully confrimation will come in the near future). I don't think they're really interested in skate parks and what have you. Any portion of Dreamland not used as an amusement park could become something veryc dire

I think with Council elections coming we need to be strong and maintain our ideals. We know that there's atleast one operator willing to buy, we know that using the entire site could result in something magical (Jean marc Toussant's vission) and we know that Dreamland is an intergral part of Thanet's identity. I think this is what we must fight for.

[Neil]

Can we save all of Dreamland?
I doubt it, but...
1) I believe it's still possible even if the odds are against us (the same applies to Pleasureland, although there the chances of saving it seem even smaller)
2) I think it's good to strive for an ideal even if you don't believe you can attain it. Did Bob Geldoph (sorry if that's spelt horribly wrong) think his campaign would make poverty history? I doubt it, but ideals are good to strive for. I'm not trying to compare the SDC to the MPHC, however I do believe it's good to fight the unfightable. Hopefully that way even if you fall short of your target, you will make a worth while difference.

Will we have a moral victory? I think we already have, however to effectively surrender our ideals would tarnish this.

I think all the opinions that have been raised (at least all those except for Bob's and a couple of 'Bob's Friendys') have been valid, however I think we should carry on doing what we have been, rather than seeking a compromise.

[uvegotmale2000]

i agree.there should be no compromise.the dreamland site should be 100% kept as an amusement park
we dont need fancy hotels or restaurants there.even if they did build them there hardly anyone would use them because margate would be a ghost town
thanet council should take a long hard look at morcambe and see how bad that place has changed since frontierland closed it doors

shops and hotels boarded up and tourism down over 80%
is this what thanet council really wants??
thanet council wake up and smell the coffee,once dreamland has gone it can NEVER be replaced

i whole heartlly agree that dreamland should stay a theme park because thats what the majority of people want
if dreamland was taken over by a proper amusement owner like philip miller and given the love and attention it so desperatlly needs then (as people in southend already know) the tourists would be packing out the beach and dreamland
its not rocket science
southend wouldnt be the place it is today if it wasnt for philip miller
all you have to remember is when benbom brothers were owners of dreamland the place was packed with people on days out,and when the evil jimmy godden took over and started removing the rides then the tourists stayed away.i wonder why (nothing to do)

we all know waterbridge has no intention of keeping dreamland as an amusements site and never has.its been obvious that they want a mixture of shops and hotels and restaurants.waterbridge are only in this business to make money and they have played the slow game but many people can see them for what they really are.

its not long now till waterbridge unveil the 2 ideas that people have voted for the dreamland site(yeah right!) and even though the majority of people voted for dreamland to be kept as an amusement park you can bet your bottom dollar they havent taken a blind bit of notice of what people actually want!!!

i suppose one good thing is that this website with the talents of nick and sarah plus many others (you know who you are) have done one thing many other people trying to save theme parks havent

we have kept dreamland going for a few more years than it could have been,so it does show this campaign has changed and slowed things down
places like frontierland and pleasureland didnt really get the chance for their campaigns to get off the ground before the bulldozers moved in.
so i thank each and everyone of you for continuing the fight to save our precious dreamland

we must never give up fighting,we dont need shops hotels and suclh like,all we need is waterbridge to sell dreamland to a philip miller now and let the sleeping giant and margate wake back up again

also with the elections coming up,find out which candidates are actually actively trying to save dreamland (there are some) and lets throw our weight behinf them as well

together we can make a difference!


nick have you any news about any developments at all?

[Bob]

the scenic is not a moveable structure, it would practically be rebuilt from scratch and then it would no longer be listed.

jimmy godden suggested 'gifting' the scenic to margate if a suitable site could be found several years ago.

the campaign is not just about saving the scenic. it's about saving Dreamland, Thanets largest ever tourist attraction from developers and keeping the scenic in it's current setting - an amusement park in Margate.

This is all true, particularly that the Scenic Railway would not be moveable.

My *personal* opinion is that a compromise should be sought with Waterbridge which reflects the importance of keeping the Scenic Railway along with a permanent supporting amusement park while recognising that tourism trends have changed and that they are unlikely to change back.

My *personal* opinion is that if Mr Godden were to permanently gift the Scenic Railway to Margate along with that part of Dreamland which lies on the seaward side then no objection should be made to development of the remainder of the park.

My opinion only!

It is encouraging to see that a sense of realism is now setting in and that rather then go for something that is not achievable there is an acceptance that a compromise will have to be made. As you point out holiday trends have drastically changed since the 1960's/1970's and there is no longer mass tourism in Margate in spite of what might be said. Any facilities at Dreamland have to be on a scale that is commercially viable. No one will subsidies these facilities and that includes the National Lottery. The other problem Margate has is it is just not attractive to tourists. It has no facilities to speak of. If you were holidaying in the UK would you go to say, Blackpool or Clacton or Margate ?

Whilst many try to compare Margate & Southend they are both very different. Southend is almost a suburb of London. It also has excellent shopping facilities and it has the Pier. The local council has also made a good job of smartening the place up and it does not have the run down derelict and seedy look of Margate.

A part of the tidying up of Margate needs to be the redevelopment of Dreamland and also Arlington Tower. Thanet council also needs to play its part in arresting the decline of Margate town centre & seafront something that it has not done in the past. Quite a lot could be done with just a lick of paint, new street lighting etc.

[EAS]

Yeah right - new street lighting and a lick of paint will do the trick. (Remind us when you were last in Margate Bob?)

What would have me flocking to Margate would be a re-opened and revamped Dreamland, with the Scenic as star attraction, under new ownership by someone capable of running the place.

I went to Blackpool recently - and I won't be returning again for a very long time actually. When were you last there Bob?

Shops and flats and 'mixed' use - well. I could go anywhere.

[Neil]

I agree about Blackpool, all this about downsizing the Pleasure beach (maybe even towards closure) and bringing in a super casino seems the wrong way to go. Nevertheless I would love to go the the Sandcastle. Being a poor student and living so far away makes it difficult, however they do seem to be making a real effort.
http://www.sandcastle-waterworld.co.uk/

The same goes for Southport where a businessmen seems to feel Southport's toruism is worth investing in.
http://www.splashworldsouthport.com/
http://www.splashworldsouthport.com/making_waves.htm

The problem is these need to be put of a package to attract visitors to the area, whereas property developers who are out for a money grab kill off the other attractions and ultimately strangle those are seriously trying make a go of it.

I agree about the save Pleasureland Campaign not being given a real chance. I don't know whether the Council there was responsible. I've heard different things from different sources. Apparently there was a short term preservation order that could have been given, but then other sources say there were reasons that may have stopped this. Either way even with the pier and water park, I doubt I'd go there. Other than Great yarmouth and Southend I can't think of many seaside town I would want to go to even for a short break. There are quite a few I'd go to for a day out, but margate is only just in this set because of the shell grotto and the Scenic.

Clearly there are people willing to invest in the seaside. Skegness has just revealed some excitting plans, and Brighton has the tower, which will make quite a difference. What will margate have? The shell grotto* and some houses? No thanks!!!
*That's not meant to be a criticism of the Shell Grotto. It's fantastic few hours, but not enough on its own to attract people for a short break. The shell grotto, plus an improved seafront free from boraded up shops and burnt down arcades, plus proper amusement park would definately do the trick. Soughting out Arlington House would be a nice bonus.

[Lou]

bob wrote:

It is encouraging to see that a sense of realism is now setting in and that rather then go for something that is not achievable there is an acceptance that a compromise will have to be made.

Sorry don't know if i did this quote properly, but all the same, I personally am not compromising, I wish for the whole site, also I am not giving up, no matter what, its too important.
Why is it not achievable, because people are more concerned with money than looking at the bigger picture. The whole community will benefit from opening Dreamland, businesses, and the general public, who will be able to go and have 'fun' and spend a few quid in their own community.

[EAS]

Southport - I think that the Dreamland campaign was firmly in the minds of the owners when the closure happened. It was done in a day - staff collected together and given the sack.

When an application was made to list the Cyclone, English Heritage, and this is a very contentious issue at the moment in conservation circles, didn't exactly leap to it - they gave notice of a visit, leaving ample time to chainsaw the structure so it couldn't be listed.

An alternative operator was willing to talk about taking over and the local authority was notified... but of course PBB Ltd will make far more from flogging on the lease if they get a change of use on the site to something else.

As with Dreamland...