Dreamland scheme to cost £300m, also Margate FM

[EAS]

Sorry but you can demolish a listed building if you can prove that they are in a condition likely to cause death or injury to person/s there have been a number over the last few years that it has been done to the councils in the areas the buildings were demolished did not enforce the regulations to force the owners to maintain the structure.

I deal in this sort of thing day in day out.

I can quote you case law and regulations and I can assure you (and Waterbridge) that demolition isn't that easy. And if the structure has been deliberately left to rot, the economics of repair are not really a major part of the equation.

The Scenic isn't some small out of the way unimportant structure, and national pressure will be brought to bear if it isn't maintained in a condition which is at least safe.

In the end, the council has the ability to enforce repair, and it also has the ability to compulsorily purchase. In that case, it can pass on the structure to a Trust willing to take it on.


A Trust would be in a position to apply for grants to repair.

If the Scenic is now starting to fall into disrepair, please can someone in the area take some photographs and post them here?

I live many hundreds of miles away and can't do it.

[Zoidstar]

We are at different ends of the line your the one in the know on the legal side I'm the one who knows a bit on the structural and engineering side, just was going by the little I have had to deal with listed building consent it’s a mine field!

You beat me to it regarding the photos, would be very interested in seeing some being the other side of the water (well the Thames Estuary) and no transport of my own and on the long term sick its almost impossible to get there let alone justify the expense of the train fare of £36.50!

It’s a worry if the rot is at the extent where parts have dropped, as long its not load bearing or structural then its not too much of a worry as its Primary & Secondary that are the major parts that need to be maintained if its parts of the station roof or railings, or façade than its not a major concern as they do not add a great deal if anything to the structural integrity of the ride.

[porterm]

I wondered if anyone has noticed a unique parallel with Dreamland's proposed revival plans and what is/has now happened at Southend's Adventure Island. When I last visited their park in early December I was surprised to see the former toilets block getting transformed into a higher structure for the provision of a local/community radio station.

I seem to recall hearing that Philip Miller had won a licence to broadcast in the local community some time ago. Ironically this might be just about the only similarity with the proposed plans for Dreamland. If only Philip was in the equation here.

Cheryl - I was very sad to hear of Margate's continued retail/restaurant offering declines. I liked your "implosion" description, however I have never yet known the closure of any UK Pizza Hut establishment. Hopefully this will be a temporary blip as surely such places will be crucial for the town's renaissance. One thing you do still have though is a Yates bar, unlike the County Town here in Maidstone. (Well, I do hope that's still the case anyhow).

With the prospective volumes visiting a quality new Dreamland we surely need all the extra ancillary eating and shopping places we can muster.

Lastly, I do have to agree with our American friend, Jim, that a smaller Dreamland park would not really entice long duration patrons as people really expect varied attractions to keep returning. The influx of possible extra housing/unnessary additional retail units would impede the park's true potential I feel. That said though if the aforentioned additional facilities are deemed essential to support the park I guess we do not have many options there. I just think that once these things are built on site there's no turning back for the future. I hope the Council can take this into account when making final decisions. I say regenerate the existing boarded up town centre stores and, preferbaly, put residential housing, if really needed elsewhere. (I know some will probably claim I'm in my own dream world here but as the late Evel Kneivel said "you have to have dreams").

Martin

[EAS]

I'm not convinced either that 'enabling development' is anything other than a developer's ploy.

[zamfir]

I have never yet known the closure of any UK Pizza Hut establishment

The Dover branch lasted only a few months, and before anybody says it, that was before we were invaded!

[Cheryl]

Hi. I am not an expert at all wood is wood to me. From what I saw of the Scenic, the rails that run around the ride seem to need attention. You can see evidence of this merely by looking from the seafront through Goddens Gap. I hope this isn't too serious and can easily be sorted.

[Zoidstar]

If its wooden hand rails that you are looking at then they are not structural so if they are rotten they will not harm the structural integrity of the scenic.

Its the main frames and cross members (of the ride not not this froum...well actually it is) you have to be carefull with.

My god I'm turning in to a boring old fart!

[Nick Evans]

In case it has escaped anyone's attention, Thanet already has a local radio station - it's KMFM if you didn't know. Part of Kent Messenger/Extra group, not sure how profitable it is but any commercial rival will be trying to get advertising from a small market I would think.

A better idea would be to taking a fishing boat off shore, set up a radio station on that and give it a popular girls' name - oh, sorry that's been done before!

[dave771]

As someone with quite an extensive knowledge of the Scenic, handrails, banking, boarding etc isnt too much of a concern and is a simple job to replace. As for the legs, collars and joists, they will need a lot replacing as it would every winter before the ride is operational. As the ride hasnt been operational for some time I doubt it is in the state that some people think it may be. It hasnt had to deal with a 4ton train going round the tracks constantly every day! It will require a very thorough inspection before it opens again but I cant see it being a major issue personally. I did have a close look at the ride and its condition towards end of last year and isnt looking too bad considering.

Dave

[Jim Douglas Jr.]

Thanks, Dave. I'm sure that puts many at ease.
It was in generally good condition just a couple years ago, so should be holding up OK.

I'm also inclined to believe that the council does indeed have the power to commandeer the property at market value and/or enforce maintenance on the Scenic, as operation is integral to the nature of the structure.
If a trust can get grants, I'd like to see the entire property put into one.

[Becks045]

I expect Paigle pulled out realising that they won't make enough money particulary with the consumer dip in the housing market.

Anyway putting flats/houses on the Dreamland site would be a major mistake. Who on earth would buy them, certainly not local people? And even out of towners and investors would see that Margate has no amentities so it would be a poor investment.

Dreamland needs to be restored back to a theme park to attract visitors to the area.

The entire sea-front area needs a boost with the cinema becoming a place for gigs/music event.

Some of the crappy arcardes which really make the sea-front look downmarket should be turned into bars/cafes. People come to Margate and can't even get a decent meal, its terribble!

The high street should be restored to its former glory with shops filling all the units.

When people visit Brighton, for example, they not only visit the Pier, they go around the shops (spending money), bars/restaurants (spending money) etc.

There needs to be more than just Dreamland.

[EAS]

I don't know why Paigle pulled out, possibly it has to do with the problems with finances at the moment which are wider than residential. They will have to borrow money to buy and develop and lenders are getting very shirty. I gather they were very keen on the heritage park idea. It would be lovely to have the whole site as a park, but the cost would now possibly be prohibitive - can't see Waterbridge wanting to sell at less than development land costs.

But - as I've said in another post - the council hasn't the ability to do much about what people do with their own property. The council can't force owners to shut down arcades and open up shops and bars and cafes.

It can react to circumstances - and with Dreamland it has adopted a Planning Brief which is rather better than the future for the site originally planned - to guide what happens, but until the owners actually put in for planning permission, then nothing can happen.

And enforcing action on the Scenic at this stage is complex. Public pressure is maybe what's required.

I think Brighton has never really got as run down as Margate. Different place, different set of circumstances.