Dreamland Leisure

[taffy]

Let's distill the argument to its fundamentals.

The conglomeration of owners of Dreamland are businessmen. They are not interested in the welfare of Margate. The money invested by Mr Hunter is, firstly not a benevolent gift from Mr Hunter's personal piggy bank; he presumably has investors who expect a return on their money.

The council have been weak in believing what the previous owner and the current amalgam say. The picture of Dreamland as a failure has been engineered and I for one believe I have the right to point this out.

Miller and others would have paid a fair price for this land as an amusement park. The council's prevarication and eventual 'crumbling' in their u turn on policy has enabled financial vultures to gather around the corpse; the price for the land has therefore theoretically increased. It is the council that are at fault. Mr Hunter only wants to maximise profits for his investors and in that he is right. It does not give him or Bob the right to try and silence others who could see what was going on and still see what is going on. Ripping the heart out of a town for profit is not an old idea. I just wish the council had seen through the ruse and stopped the rot by insisting on its original usage. I suspect Mr Hunter wouldn't be involved then.

Tourists would come back as they do elsewhere despite what Bob says. He's not the only one with knowledge of profit and loss accounts despite his attempts to prove so. And his most recent discussion on specific plans for specific areas of the site that aren't really are wonderful. I've lost track - gyms, musuems, potholes...... People don't go to Margate anymore because one of the main reasons to go has been removed. That could be why the hotels are closing. just a thought Bob



Taffy

[Neil]

You argument with regard to the environment is very flawed. A modern plane has far less impact on the environment then several hundred car journeys

Evidence please Mr Bob. Your track record of providing accurate information has been very poor so please don't try to pull the wool over our eyes with dummy facts as if they were gospel. Because planes fly where the atmosphere is thinner, for some reason I don't fully understand (I've never claimed to be a top scientist), the damage to the ozone layer is far greater than something on the earth emitting the same amount of carbon dioxide, thus planes have a temendous impact on global warming.

Ofcourse it might depend how far you're flying, but even fairly short haul flights have a devastating impact on the environment so you will need a bit of proof to convince us. Plus ofcourse even with your argument people still have to drive to the airport so even if you theory is correct (I'm scepticle, although I'm not a scientist. You clearly aren't either) then the effect on the environment is still greater than everyone driving to Margate. I don't believe you know what you are talking about.

[David Ellis]

People no longer come to visit the seaside in any significant numbers... People no longer come to seaside resorts nor have they any interest in seaside Amusement Parks what is affecting Margate is affecting resorts all over the UK. Even the largest resort left Blackpool stuggles to survive and is slowing shrinking and becoming more run down.

They do not wish Dreamland to become a burdon on the TDC council tax payers.

So that is why Blackpool Pleasure Beach, the number one free entry tourist attraction in the UK, still gets 6 million visitors in a bad year then?

And how many times do I have to point out that Dreamland does not have a direct burden on the Council Tax Payers. It is privately owned and operated, not run by the Council.

David.

[Bob]

People no longer come to visit the seaside in any significant numbers... People no longer come to seaside resorts nor have they any interest in seaside Amusement Parks what is affecting Margate is affecting resorts all over the UK. Even the largest resort left Blackpool stuggles to survive and is slowing shrinking and becoming more run down.

They do not wish Dreamland to become a burdon on the TDC council tax payers.

So that is why Blackpool Pleasure Beach, the number one free entry tourist attraction in the UK, still gets 6 million visitors in a bad year then?

And how many times do I have to point out that Dreamland does not have a direct burden on the Council Tax Payers. It is privately owned and operated, not run by the Council.

David.

Which is why Dreamland is not viable as a 100% Amusement Park. It has to operate at a profit. Something it has not achieved in the last 20 years.

[taffy]

I wonder why......ahem...........

[Bob]

People no longer come to visit the seaside in any significant numbers... People no longer come to seaside resorts nor have they any interest in seaside Amusement Parks what is affecting Margate is affecting resorts all over the UK. Even the largest resort left Blackpool stuggles to survive and is slowing shrinking and becoming more run down.

They do not wish Dreamland to become a burdon on the TDC council tax payers.

So that is why Blackpool Pleasure Beach, the number one free entry tourist attraction in the UK, still gets 6 million visitors in a bad year then?

And how many times do I have to point out that Dreamland does not have a direct burden on the Council Tax Payers. It is privately owned and operated, not run by the Council.

David.

Britain’s top tourist attractions suffered a big dip in visitors last year, according to a report by the Association of Leading Visitor Attractions.
According to the figures, Blackpool Pleasure Beach welcomed 5.73 million visitors in 2003 – a 10 per cent drop on the total for 2002. Visitors to London’s Tate Modern were down 16 per cent and visitors to the Eden Project in Cornwall fell by a whopping 19 per cent.

[Nick]

Britain’s top tourist attractions suffered a big dip in visitors last year, according to a report by the Association of Leading Visitor Attractions.
According to the figures, Blackpool Pleasure Beach welcomed 5.73 million visitors in 2003 – a 10 per cent drop on the total for 2002. Visitors to London’s Tate Modern were down 16 per cent and visitors to the Eden Project in Cornwall fell by a whopping 19 per cent.

I think you have your figures wrong for Blackpool Pleasure Beach. It actually got 5.97m visitors last year, making it the the most-visited tourist attraction in the UK yet again. That was a drop of 3.3%, though, but thankfully the Pleasure Beach suffered less of a drop than many other attractions. Full list here:

http://www.alva.org.uk/visitor_statistics/

Nick

[Bob]

Britain’s top tourist attractions suffered a big dip in visitors last year, according to a report by the Association of Leading Visitor Attractions.
According to the figures, Blackpool Pleasure Beach welcomed 5.73 million visitors in 2003 – a 10 per cent drop on the total for 2002. Visitors to London’s Tate Modern were down 16 per cent and visitors to the Eden Project in Cornwall fell by a whopping 19 per cent.

I think you have your figures wrong for Blackpool Pleasure Beach. It actually got 5.97m visitors last year, making it the the most-visited tourist attraction in the UK yet again. That was a drop of 3.3%, though, but thankfully the Pleasure Beach suffered less of a drop than many other attractions. Full list here:

http://www.alva.org.uk/visitor_statistics/

Nick

The figures quoted are for 2003. What is beyond any doubt is that over a long period of time Blackpool has seen visitor numbers plummet. In 1989 Blackpool had over 17 Million visitors. 10 years later that was down to 11 Million. In 2005 it is down to under 6 Million. These are pretty dramatic falls. A similar patern can be seen across the UK.

Blackpool is facing the same challenges that Margate is. They are looking at alternative uses for much of the area. Museums and Casinos figure in the options as well as retail. It is likely that visitor numbers to Blackpool will by 2010 have fallen to about 3.5 Million. The substantial fall in visitor numbers accounts for a lot of the rundown look of Blackpool, something that many seaside resorts suffer from. They were geared up for catering for large numbers of holidaymakers who of course no longer come.. Its been and continues to be a painfull period of adjustment to an extent its similar to what has happened to the old coal mining areas. In there case they were dependent on the mines and not holidaymakrs

[Nick]

The figures quoted are for 2003. What is beyond any doubt is that over a long period of time Blackpool has seen visitor numbers plummet. In 1989 Blackpool had over 17 Million visitors. 10 years later that was down to 11 Million. In 2005 it is down to under 6 Million. These are pretty dramatic falls. A similar patern can be seen across the UK.

Blackpool is facing the same challenges that Margate is. They are looking at alternative uses for much of the area. Museums and Casinos figure in the options as well as retail. It is likely that visitor numbers to Blackpool will by 2010 have fallen to about 3.5 Million. The substantial fall in visitor numbers accounts for a lot of the rundown look of Blackpool, something that many seaside resorts suffer from. They were geared up for catering for large numbers of holidaymakers who of course no longer come.. Its been and continues to be a painfull period of adjustment to an extent its similar to what has happened to the old coal mining areas. In there case they were dependent on the mines and not holidaymakrs

Woah. Where do I start?

I can't be bothered to go through each of the points made above as they are generally a complete work of fiction. But I want to make a couple of points. The 1989 and 1999 figures you quote are for Blackpool the town. The 2005 figure is for Blackpool Pleeasure Beach. Blackpool Pleasure Beach is a tourist attraction in Blackpool. Blackpool is a town on the North West coast. Do you know the difference?

Blackpool Pleasure Beach visitor numbers peaked in 1997 with 7.8 million visitors. Those figures were fairly typical of the sort of figures they had after the opening of the World's tallest and fastest roller coaster in 1994 (the Pepsi Max Big One). For the past few years, they have hovered at around 6 million.

And as the planning advisor for the new regional casino development at Blackpool, I can tell you that we are estimating slightly more than 3.5 million visitors for the town by 2010. We would not be investing considerably over £100m on the development were we not sure that visitors would be higher than that. Visitors to Blackpool are currently between 10 and 12 million. We are estimating that visitors to the town in 2010 will be somewhere between 16 and 20 million.

But please note, they are visitors to the town not the Pleasure Beach.

There are some very big investments planned for the Pleasure Beach too over the next few years...

Nick

[David Ellis]

The figures quoted are for 2003.

Given the fact that 2005 figures are available Bob, you have the cheek to say that we are living in the past!

David.

[DaveD]

The death knell has already sounded for the British Seaside Resort Bob. What you don't seem to undertstand is that it has no further left to fall - when you reach the bottom, the only way is up.

Margate is surrounded by other Thanet towns that have thrived through redevelopment - there is some truth in what you are saying but TDC needs to switch it's attentions away from the Dreamland Site and concentrate on the town itself which is littered with empty shops and businesses. The continental "café culture" of tables and chairs on the streets has worked very well in Brighton and other areas - this would generate improved tourism without a doubt.

Seaside resorts will always have some level of tourism and that should be the focus point of any redevelopment. A theme park would without doubt bring a lot more people into the area with the right attitude and publicity but the rest of the town needs to be an attractive proposition for the visitor as well.

Your words concentrate on how shopping will largely become based around out-of-town centres; there is also some truth in that but the country will eventually become so saturated with them that people will crave something different which is why we will see Independent Shops and Theme Parks thrive again in the future, as they are starting to very slowly now. Someone who invests in a new Theme Park needs the patience and vision to see that there is money to be made in the future, if not necessarily now.

The internet will take a fraction of business away also but the average shopper is relatively impatient and when they want to purchase something, they want it in their hand the same day which is why purchasing things on-line only has a future with items that are generally very hard to find in the High Street.



Dave D

[$$$bob_returns$$$]

Bob has been on leave but you really should take notice of what he is saying on the forum he quite right that Dreamland should move forward we are in 2006 not the 1920's. people now go abroad for holidays rather than go to Margate.

[lutonlad]

Bob has been on leave but you really should take notice of what he is saying on the forum he quite right that Dreamland should move forward we are in 2006 not the 1920's. people now go abroad for holidays rather than go to Margate.

How about you keep your comments to yourself then if you have nothing posotive to say!!!!

Gary

[vince69619]

Bob has been on leave but you really should take notice of what he is saying on the forum he quite right that Dreamland should move forward we are in 2006 not the 1920's. people now go abroad for holidays rather than go to Margate.

Well that makes two of you that think the same way, and funny enough there are 13,000 other campaign supporters that don't agree. Now even with a basic grasp of maths, the percentage in favour of keeping Dreamland as an amusement park is (13000 - 2) * 100 / 13000 which is 99.9846%.

Even if people were to have a week's holiday in Margate, they are only likely to visit an attraction once or twice, so the customers for such a park are just as likely to be day-trippers. This is why the 'holidays abroad' excuse for shutting Dreamland is rubbish. If you care to read the threads on the board, you will see that Blackpool pleasure beach backs this up. Investment is happening there and it's the number one UK attraction.

Dreamland's customers are the meddling out of towner's that Toby Hunter doesn't want in his park, parting with their money!

But you know this already don't you Barry!

Vince.

[RowBot]

Ya still don't get this meddling out of towner's comment since all parks need them to survive So seems someone doesn't know what there talking about